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[Vlad]

@Bronzedog: .......wow i didn't think about it like that.

I feel really stupid now lol, I suck at math

[CaptainArchmage]

Yes, I know this probably belongs in the "What's going on in your fort" thread, but I'll post it here since I said I would.

The fortress of Līnemthīkut, "Facebook", has been established. It took about 7 minutes to embark after hitting "enter" with other highly intensive processes running in the background. This is not a new computer, and it is a laptop. The embark is 16x16 and it has all three cavern layers, and all other features present. There is a worldgen road and bridge, which is a 7-tile-wide floor with a few walls crossing the map. There are 139 z-levels below the ground, and the sky is quite high up since the dwarves stopped in the middle of a deep river valley. The thing that likely prevents the efficient running of these 16x16 embarks is the lack of optimization. FPS is about 5-10 with a brook flowing right across the map, right after embark.

The memory usage statistics show the application uses 1.45GB of RAM, or roughly 350MB more than DF does running normal sized 4x4 or smaller embarks 1GB more RAM than DF does running a 3x5 embark.
Fixed this

That's smaller than the 2GB limit for Large Address Aware applications if run on Windows. Maybe the thing uses more memory on windows, I don't know. This isn't a reason not to switch to Large Address Aware Mode though.

[Putnam]

My DF uses 350 MB normally, and that's with Fortbent as it currently is. Not sure what's up with your copy to be using 1.1 normally.

[CaptainArchmage]

My DF uses 350 MB normally, and that's with Fortbent as it currently is. Not sure what's up with your copy to be using 1.1 normally.

Actually, that was run over WINE. I can check whether mac-usable Dwarf Fortress does the same with a normal sized fort though, I have a 3x5 fortress with a decent population, that has 15/16ths of the normal 4x4 embark size in terms of tiles.

Edit: The wagon at Facebook is being unloaded, and I am having spikes of up to 24-25 frames per second. There are a few lag spikes, likely because of the brook. RAM usage has fallen to 1.41GB. For reference, a highly loaded web browser could be about 850MB? RAM usage for my web browser is about 750MB at the moment with two tabs open, counting the multiple processes it has running.

This performance is actually better than I had the last time I tried a 16x16 embark. Over the course of writing this DF's RAM usage continues to fall.

It looks like one major source of low FPS is the behaviour of fluids. I have noticed this during weather events on other maps when the murky pools refill.

Edit2: On reload of the 16x16 embark, the RAM usage went to 1.71 GB. WTF?

[CaptainArchmage]

The file size for the game was about 53MB, and it took about 3 minutes to save without a web browser open. I checked the 3x5 embark and it uses 390MB of RAM when loaded into the game, so yes, there is a considerable increase in the RAM usage. After unloading the 16x16 save file, the game took 200-250MB or so of RAM. When newly opened in the background, it takes 10.9MB (why is there a difference?).

For some reason I am seeing dwarfort.exe as having 4 threads, too.

Edit: So given the quick test and other information, the main sources of low FPS (and targets for optimization or simplification) are:
-fluids in motion
-tracking objects
-pathfinding
-amount of stuff needed to be accessed or stored in RAM

Edit2: As noted in the previous post, RAM usage jumped up to 1.71GB after reload. FPS was 25-30 but had massive lag spikes that brought it down to 10 or less for a moment or so. Digging operations in progress. Most other dwarves just standing around doing nothing for now.

After the second save: DF Memory usage at 423MB. It looks to me like a lot isn't being cleared out of RAM.

After loading again, after the second save, after completely closing DF and opening it again: DF memory usage back to 1.66GB as expected.

If anyone wants I can upload the save to them. However, for further testing I want to go somewhere without flowing water to see how that goes.

Do you have any good ways to simplify the handling of fluids or items so they don't really clog up the simulation, even on "reasonably sized" maps?

Here's my impression of the 16x16 map: Its a brilliant choice if it can be made more friendly in terms of speed. The size of the site in terms of hard disk data isn't that much higher and there's a maximum on space for expansion. If players were able to use 16x16 maps, it would make more of outdoor sieges and development, as well as increase the need for minecarts. The embark Līnemthīkut has a lot of diorite layers with gold and tetrahedrite, but there is also schist present beneath the diorite with veins of sphalerite. In the north-east, however, there is a large quantity of mudstone, which means iron is accessible. However, to drag the hematite and limonite over to the main fortress, one would need to invest in minecarts.

LastEdit: Well there goes the fortress, there's no flux on the map. Time to embark somewhere else!

[dirty foot]

After asking in Dwarf Mode forums, I was told I should ask here.

What happens to the king when you abandon? Does he go back to the mountainhome?

[Caldfir]

@CaptainArchmage: I think maybe you're not getting the full memory footprint reported by your OS; as far as I'm aware, the entire map's tiles are always loaded when you have a fort running.  If you have 139 z-levels  down beneath the surface, then neglecting any air above the fort that gives 139*(16*48)^2 = 81,985,536 tiles.  The minimum data stored per tile is ~12 bytes, meaning the absolute minimum amount of memory your map can possibly take up in main memory is close to 983,826,432 bytes, or just under a gig, before adding creatures, history, or items.  I would guess that you're getting reports about the active or possibly physical memory being used by the program, rather than the actual amount of allocated memory.  Since much of the map (and history and whatever else) probably isn't getting looked at very often, this number would be much lower.  On reload, you're getting to see the full number very briefly.  ~1.7 gigs sounds reasonable for the amount of data a 16x16 embark has loaded; and if you happened to settle on a location deeper than the one you did (I've frequently seen ~200 z-levels), or if you had a longer world history, then you'd be crashing.  (correct me if I'm mistaken about this interpretation)

In the future, perhaps it would be prudent for the game to simply not load regions of unexplored solid rock in order to save space in main memory as an optimization, and I'm certain there are other potential improvements to both the space and speed limitations that DF has, but like everything it's a matter of priority.  I would probably personally prefer optimizations to worldgen so that I can reasonably generate a 2000-year-world or so, or perhaps the ability to create player forts that straddle regions, but we'll see what gets done and when. 

[de5me7]

interesting developments in combat choices

Have you considered introducing offensive dodging?

This may already be in, but what i mean by this is; In martial arts, its often common to dodge to a position where you can more easily attack. This might be combined with a parry in one move.

For example, if someone is attacking me with a weapon in their left hand, i might dodge right next to them to their right, so they cannot hit me (due to their body being in the way and the limited reach of their left arm) and parry simultaniously just to prevent any attack getting through.

In game terms this would mean combining a dodge with a parry move, and the dodge leaving me next to my target with a higher hit percentage on my next attack.

I would expect such a move to be only available for either an skilled warrior/and or slightly risky.

Are feints implimented in the combat system?

e.g. can i pretent to attack with my left arm, inducing a block, parry or dodge, to then make the real attack with my right?

I would expect this to be only available to more skilled warriors and yeild a higher hit precentage or negate the dodge or parry for the second attack.

[Mesa]

interesting developments in combat choices

Have you considered introducing offensive dodging?

This may already be in, but what i mean by this is; In martial arts, its often common to dodge to a position where you can more easily attack. This might be combined with a parry in one move.

For example, if someone is attacking me with a weapon in their left hand, i might dodge right next to them to their right, so they cannot hit me (due to their body being in the way and the limited reach of their left arm) and parry simultaniously just to prevent any attack getting through.

In game terms this would mean combining a dodge with a parry move, and the dodge leaving me next to my target with a higher hit percentage on my next attack.

I would expect such a move to be only available for either an skilled warrior/and or slightly risky.

Are feints implimented in the combat system?

e.g. can i pretent to attack with my left arm, inducing a block, parry or dodge, to then make the real attack with my right?

I would expect this to be only available to more skilled warriors and yeild a higher hit precentage or negate the dodge or parry for the second attack.

Feints could be pretty awesome if one has multiple ways to attack simultaneously (ie. 4 arms etc.)

Toady, can you share some in-game peeks of the new version? A combat log, elf and dwarf sites?

[Putnam]

I'd just like the raws :V

[Footkerchief]

Have you considered introducing offensive dodging?

Suggestions is thataway.

Are feints implimented in the combat system?

Nope, they'd have been mentioned.

[King Mir]

Can world-gen dwarf fortresses, as distinct from other sites, cross 16x16 world tile boundaries? If so, will will such fortresses be playable now?

[Whatsifsowhatsit]

While watching a DF LP on YouTube, I suddenly remembered, although I might be mistaken, that dwarves who were children at the end of world gen don't grow up during play, so even if they turn 12 or older during the first play, if they come to your fort as migrants they will still be children. The LP in question did have several 13-year-old children.

With several world gen activities such as births and deaths now going on during fortress mode play, do children also turn into adults (and babies into children, if that was also ever a similar issue) in-game, off-site, so that you no longer get migrant children age 12 or above? (Already answered so green color removed, thanks!)

[Putnam]

Since both death and birth are coming in next release, I highly doubt that adulthood won't.

[Knight Otu]

As a matter of fact, growing up is confirmed for the next version. The one snag that may still be is the fast-forward when starting a new game, but that should be handled by the time of the release.

Children grow up throughout the world now, as you are playing, and new relationships are scheduled properly.