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[monk12]

Will travelers detour along roads and through sites in order to avoid wilderness? Will they try to stay the night in sites, or will they camp in the woods and get eaten by bogeymen?

I know inns are certainly out for this release, but I'm wondering if people traveling for peaceful purposes on the map will plan their journeys differently than armies/bandits/dragons plan theirs.

[LordBaal]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It is wrong that I always generate worlds with:
- No demons or Hell.
- Mod goblins to eat and drink and sleep.
- Remove the NO_EAT, NO_SLEEP and others such those from almost all creatures.
- Remove creatures as bronze colossus, fire creatures, magma creatures, the elemental mans (mud, blood and such).
- I allow a single type of vampire and from 1 to 5 types of were beasts because they are cool. I also leave zombies alone because they are cool and I frankly don't know hot to mod them (but I'm trying to find a way to stop single organs as skin or hair from reanimating, I would like Romero kind of zombies more).
- I have been toying with the mod that add firearms because firearms are really dwarfy.

And then play it? I do it because:
- The no daemons worlds are supposed to be faster and less demanding on the PC once a can of HFS has been open.
- I greatly dislike high fantasy such demons and creatures that violate certain physical laws.
- I also don't make use of dwarf atom smashers or perpetual movement machinery. In other worlds I like fantasy worlds with as little magic as possible (if not at all).

However:
- So far, I played under such conditions and found the goblins stay around quite a bit even with the no_eat tag removed. In fact I have never see them go extinct on any of the worlds I made so far. As for the gameplay I still receive sieges from goblins and plenty of wild life both above and under ground.

On a side note I dislike using traps beyond strictly hunting ends, all the enemies shall die by crossbow, hammer and axe!

Sometimes I fell like the worst dwarf player ever!

This could probably do with its own thread.

I actually started commenting about the goblings not eating and ended up forgetting to make the question I was going to make.

- I always wondered if you ever thought of implementing a "research system", where some things became available as certain dates or entities invent/discover/develop them?
- It would be possible to make motorized minecarts to haul/push other carts as opposed to having motorized tracks? You thought of that or think to implement it at some point?

[Putnam]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It is wrong that I always generate worlds with:
- No demons or Hell.
- Mod goblins to eat and drink and sleep.
- Remove the NO_EAT, NO_SLEEP and others such those from almost all creatures.
- Remove creatures as bronze colossus, fire creatures, magma creatures, the elemental mans (mud, blood and such).
- I allow a single type of vampire and from 1 to 5 types of were beasts because they are cool. I also leave zombies alone because they are cool and I frankly don't know hot to mod them (but I'm trying to find a way to stop single organs as skin or hair from reanimating, I would like Romero kind of zombies more).
- I have been toying with the mod that add firearms because firearms are really dwarfy.

And then play it? I do it because:
- The no daemons worlds are supposed to be faster and less demanding on the PC once a can of HFS has been open.
- I greatly dislike high fantasy such demons and creatures that violate certain physical laws.
- I also don't make use of dwarf atom smashers or perpetual movement machinery. In other worlds I like fantasy worlds with as little magic as possible (if not at all).

However:
- So far, I played under such conditions and found the goblins stay around quite a bit even with the no_eat tag removed. In fact I have never see them go extinct on any of the worlds I made so far. As for the gameplay I still receive sieges from goblins and plenty of wild life both above and under ground.

On a side note I dislike using traps beyond strictly hunting ends, all the enemies shall die by crossbow, hammer and axe!

Sometimes I fell like the worst dwarf player ever!

This could probably do with its own thread.

I actually started commenting about the goblings not eating and ended up forgetting to make the question I was going to make.

- I always wondered if you ever thought of implementing a "research system", where some things became available as certain dates or entities invent/discover/develop them?
- It would be possible to make motorized minecarts to haul/push other carts as opposed to having motorized tracks? You thought of that or think to implement it at some point?

1. No.
2. Can't you already do that?

[LordBaal]

1. Okay... however I would like to get Toady on the line for that one. I suppose you answer is right though.
2. I don't think so.

[Lord Shonus]

ah i see, but theres gotta be a way to have goblins eat that fits with toady's vision of them. raiding villages and caravans is a way but wouldnt be able to sustain a whole civ. using captured enemies as slaves could work too or using less intelligent creatures like trolls, which are already used for their fur. goblins could also be made to eat sentients if they dont already, i could see goblins making dwarf soup after a sucessful siege.

I believe I read somewhere that the only reason goblins don't eat is because toady and threetoe want all goblins to die from being killed. I guess a possible way to have it all blend is if the goblins don't die from not eating or drinking but instead suffer drastic penalties such as being extremely weak,skinny, malnourished, and  anemic. Thus the goblin would stand no chance killing even an average civilian dwarf after starving itself for 10  months. If they're reasonably punished for not eating/drinking then I could easily accept a goblin's settlement/civilization.

No. Toady has explicitly stated that goblins will never need to eat.

[Knight Otu]

Technological advancement has come up before, and Toady isn't generally opposed to it. The game already has notions of civ knowledge for animal taming and domestication, and according to the raws, individuals will eventually be able to research (some of) the secrets of life and death without divine aid. It is a rather contentious topic among the fanbase though - many people are opposed to "by date A invent X" and tech trees, and Toady himself has pretty much stated that tech progression shouldn't be static, or even a given - "Sometimes you should have an end of the world event rather than tech progression to a mundane age."

Spoiler: A few links (click to show/hide)

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=30026.msg994813#msg994813

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=30026.msg470592#msg470592

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60554.msg1776138#msg1776138

[LordBaal]

Awesome, I always thought that date x, invent y or "tech trees" are too rigid and false.

I made this suggestion for total war games for example:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

- Implement the techs on a more organic and realistic way, do away the rigid and predictable boring tech tree: I tend to feel tech development in the way it is now, using "trees", is to rigid and false. If it depended upon my choice, the tech tree and the X amount of turns to develop X tech will be gone forever, for all games. I think that as in real life, the "tech tree" should be more organic, along the lines of what you do on regular basis. You siege a lot? You get better at it, by let's say accumulating points after each siege (successful or not), once a certain amount of points are reached you get a upgrade regarding siege warfare. And so on. On the other hand building a lot of ports for example could increase your naval tech, as well as naval battles and do trade by sea.

Other way of acquiring tech would be by trade. But not in screen trade of tech. That was never part of a real diplomacy reunion, but by civil commerce. You know those guys over there have really nice agricultural tools, if you open trading with them then your people will eventually buy those tools and eventually start to copy them and produce them by their own.

And finally by conquest, if you conquer X city or nation you can get some or all the techs that this culture had and you don't (that's how Romans roll anyway). Other more specific "techs" like the Marian Reform could be combination of your actions and dates or places on the map. An example as Rome could be that you should get the gladius after fighting against Iberian troops (or anyone that have that sword) for the first time.

[Helgoland]

How about skilled people having a chance for making a discovery every, say, ten years? Then places with a certain specialization will automatically advance quicker in that field than others.

[snpaa]

ah i see, but theres gotta be a way to have goblins eat that fits with toady's vision of them. raiding villages and caravans is a way but wouldnt be able to sustain a whole civ. using captured enemies as slaves could work too or using less intelligent creatures like trolls, which are already used for their fur. goblins could also be made to eat sentients if they dont already, i could see goblins making dwarf soup after a sucessful siege.

I believe I read somewhere that the only reason goblins don't eat is because toady and threetoe want all goblins to die from being killed. I guess a possible way to have it all blend is if the goblins don't die from not eating or drinking but instead suffer drastic penalties such as being extremely weak,skinny, malnourished, and  anemic. Thus the goblin would stand no chance killing even an average civilian dwarf after starving itself for 10  months. If they're reasonably punished for not eating/drinking then I could easily accept a goblin's settlement/civilization.

No. Toady has explicitly stated that goblins will never need to eat.

That's what im getting  to, they still wouldn't need to eat to live but a penalty for that is not being able to be some buff, tough, super endurance having soldier. 

Also toady has stated goblins could still probably eat stuff but they would not  have to eat.

[CaptainArchmage]

There probably shouldn't be a set system of dates for technology advances, because people will be forced to run their worldgen for long periods of time, although if there is a toggle for choosing between methods of technology advancement it would be acceptable.

When magic goes into the game, you may well get a system for actively researching magic within the game. Its possible to do this without a tech tree but the more abstract the thing becomes, the harder it can get to implement. Its easy to have fireball research as a tech tree, but if you want to make magical research similar to making a specific spell (interaction) in the raws there should be a good procedure for getting there.

[LordBaal]

ah i see, but theres gotta be a way to have goblins eat that fits with toady's vision of them. raiding villages and caravans is a way but wouldnt be able to sustain a whole civ. using captured enemies as slaves could work too or using less intelligent creatures like trolls, which are already used for their fur. goblins could also be made to eat sentients if they dont already, i could see goblins making dwarf soup after a sucessful siege.

I believe I read somewhere that the only reason goblins don't eat is because toady and threetoe want all goblins to die from being killed. I guess a possible way to have it all blend is if the goblins don't die from not eating or drinking but instead suffer drastic penalties such as being extremely weak,skinny, malnourished, and  anemic. Thus the goblin would stand no chance killing even an average civilian dwarf after starving itself for 10  months. If they're reasonably punished for not eating/drinking then I could easily accept a goblin's settlement/civilization.

No. Toady has explicitly stated that goblins will never need to eat.

That's what im getting  to, they still wouldn't need to eat to live but a penalty for that is not being able to be some buff, tough, super endurance having soldier. 

Also toady has stated goblins could still probably eat stuff but they would not  have to eat.

Anyway they do eat on my games and they seem to hold together just a fine as if they don't. I don't like them not eating either, but that's something easily changeable anyway.

About the tech thing, yeah, the x date then y invent is too rigid but also the simplest way, which is why probably it won't fit on this awesome game anyway. I wondered about this because now that the world is moving forwards along with your fortress it would be interesting to see some tech/magic advance be it on your own fortress or getting it by trade/siege, even if it's something slow.

I agree that it would be more spectacular if the successful civs are the ones that bring forward the tech advancements, specially dwarf. I imagine some dwarf inventing firearms (and getting it's name as a historical figure forever, maybe even a guild of inventors could be conceived) and then this knowledge is spread to all it's civilization, then to friendly dwarven civs, and then after many years and if it's allowed to other trading partners of other species (I see humans accepting them and evels getting shot in the rear) and then finally even getting stolen and reproduced by some of the smarter goblins.

[MrWiggles]

Who cares what they do in other games?

[LordBaal]

By my games I meant my own raws of DF.

[Kogan Loloklam]

I noticed in the latest answers there were lots of mentions about loyalty


Does this mean that loyalty to a civilization or other faction will be tracked like belief in a diety?

I can see a system like that forming civil war. Your site has lots of group and barony loyalty but civ loyalty across the group is low, and the off-site baron issues a decree ignoring a monarch's mandate, and suddenly civil war!

[WillowLuman]

I wonder if, when random loyalty simulation gets advanced enough, we'll get dwarf revolutions against nobles who set draconian mandates.