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[Lolfail0009]

Will civilisations that can fly still require a land path to perform a task?

Proposed solution:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Have civilisations that can fly treat floor tiles as ramps and air tiles as up/down stairs, or something like that.

[MrWiggles]

You dont need to do anything like that. Its mostly a path finding problem.

[Cruxador]

It's tied to the fact that player fortresses have a variety of defenses/levers/general interactive things that would need to be left in play for a computer to handle. And since there are no proper ways for it to handle those, the player-run sites cannot be effectively run by the computer when left alone. This is the principle difficulty.

I wish Toady would at least do a place-holdery implementation that just ignores all that shit. I don't care if my fortress can kill the goblins with lava, I just want to be able to switch away from it to play adventure without having to lose all its residents or gen a separate world.

[misko27]

It's tied to the fact that player fortresses have a variety of defenses/levers/general interactive things that would need to be left in play for a computer to handle. And since there are no proper ways for it to handle those, the player-run sites cannot be effectively run by the computer when left alone. This is the principle difficulty.

I wish Toady would at least do a place-holdery implementation that just ignores all that shit. I don't care if my fortress can kill the goblins with lava, I just want to be able to switch away from it to play adventure without having to lose all its residents or gen a separate world.

no, its mostly beacuse the players will leave it so a computer will destroy the fort. Think of it like this: The computers don't know hpw to operate Levers. If they ignore them, they run the risk of killing everyone. If they usethem, they run the risk of killing everyone. Its because its hard to determine intent, so they don't know if the drawbridge is there for sieges or when you flood everything with magma.

[ArwingXL]

Hey, just wanted to say hello to the local community here. I actually became interested in DF from playing the Gnomoria project, which i'm volunteering to do pixel art for, which brings me to my main question and point.

Will there ever be higher resolution pixel graphics and a more sophisticated renderer like what can be seen in "Dungeons of Dredmore" or "Secrets of Grindea?"

Even if you had just 1-3 trusted individuals working on just doing 32x32 tiles of every asset in the game, and spending the time to give the renderer good transparancy and item stacking, that would speed pretty much the whole project along to being a beta version instead of just an alpha version.

I don't really expect a response from Toady or Three-Toe on this issue, because they've probably gotten enough of hearing about it. It just kind of sucks that I can't get some friends into it because they're used to prettier things, but ah well.

[misko27]

Hey, just wanted to say hello to the local community here. I actually became interested in DF from playing the Gnomoria project, which i'm volunteering to do pixel art for, which brings me to my main question and point.

Will there ever be higher resolution pixel graphics and a more sophisticated renderer like what can be seen in "Dungeons of Dredmore" or "Secrets of Grindea?"

Even if you had just 1-3 trusted individuals working on just doing 32x32 tiles of every asset in the game, and spending the time to give the renderer good transparancy and item stacking, that would speed pretty the whole project along to being a beta version instead of just an alpha version.

Wow, I sear I have seen 30 people literally exactly like you. Are you a hextuplet or something?

Uneeded jokes aside, the answer is really no. He's Toady. He will do this single-handedly, even if it takes 30 years to do so.  He actually quotes the number 20, but still. There are alot of people here who are angered by the thought of Toady working on Graphics, simply because thats not what we want him to do. Sure, is it pretty? Hells no, but thats not why I'm playing.

So yes, it doesn't matter. You couldliterally say anything at this point, but You aren't going to get far. He's focusd on things other then graphics.

EDIT: and What Japa said.

[Rose]

That said, there's projects like stonesense that aim to give DF graphics anyway, but that's not really part of the main project, just community modding.

[ArwingXL]

I honestly am okay with the game with just the Phoebus graphics pack. I would be perfectly content along with oodles of other people it the game had the same style graphics as something like Legend of Zelda - A Link to the Past. He can keep the menus the way they are. that's fine.

Though, it seems like the only way to get these advancements would be to either make the code open source, or if some lucky hacker got into Toady's workstation and obtained the source code and then mass-distributed it to start an underground movement to force feed the code upgrades until it was ripe with completeness.

[Cruxador]

There's also Baughn, who's improved the graphical engine substantially for Toady and has talked in the past about revamping the way that the program perceives and uses tiles.

no, its mostly beacuse the players will leave it so a computer will destroy the fort. Think of it like this: The computers don't know hpw to operate Levers. If they ignore them, they run the risk of killing everyone. If they usethem, they run the risk of killing everyone. Its because its hard to determine intent, so they don't know if the drawbridge is there for sieges or when you flood everything with magma.

That's fine though. Just don't have the dwarves activate the bridge while the player's gone. It won't stop sieges, sure, but hopefully there's other precautions like an actual military that would stop that. And if the player leaves magma flowing that would kill all his dwarves when an adventurer enters the map and starts the fluids calculating again, that's the player's own fault.

[ArwingXL]

See that's, in my eyes, what this game deserves...

A dependable and loyal team to put together a good renderer and tileset library while Toady works specifically on the core, simulation, ai, etc. He doesn't have to get all unhappy and bent out of shape, because that team isn't going to so much as touch his workflow, since they're just taking the data of the game and making it look pretty to better represent the hard work he's put in. I just don't want to see the guy put in two decades on a project and have it not look the absolute best it can possibly be.

[misko27]

Though, it seems like the only way to get these advancements would be to either make the code open source, or if some lucky hacker got into Toady's workstation and obtained the source code and then mass-distributed it to start an underground movement to force feed the code upgrades until it was ripe with completeness.

I'm pretty sure Toady would send his Trained squad of Toad-mounted Midget Assasins Armed with Silver BanWarHammers after you. All of whch have exactly Three toes on each foot.

no, its mostly beacuse the players will leave it so a computer will destroy the fort. Think of it like this: The computers don't know hpw to operate Levers. If they ignore them, they run the risk of killing everyone. If they usethem, they run the risk of killing everyone. Its because its hard to determine intent, so they don't know if the drawbridge is there for sieges or when you flood everything with magma.

That's fine though. Just don't have the dwarves activate the bridge while the player's gone. It won't stop sieges, sure, but hopefully there's other precautions like an actual military that would stop that. And if the player leaves magma flowing that would kill all his dwarves when an adventurer enters the map and starts the fluids calculating again, that's the player's own fault.

Well, I can imagine that it would work, I just don't think toady would want it so that magma is just waiting for you, and before your adventurer came, everyone was using their magic powers. But what about minecarts, or other player-dependant systems? What about advanced entrance traps?

See that's, in my eyes, what this game deserves...

A dependable and loyal team to put together a good renderer and tileset library while Toady works specifically on the core, simulation, ai, etc. He doesn't have to get all unhappy and bent out of shape, because that team isn't going to so much as touch his workflow, since they're just taking the data of the game and making it look pretty to better represent the hard work he's put in. I just don't want to see the guy put in two decades on a project and have it not look the absolute best it can possibly be.

Nope. Still won't do it. He does how he likes it.

[ArwingXL]

that's unfortunate. I guess I'll continue assisting in the development of its pocket world carbon copy, Gnomoria.

I do enjoy what I've played of DF though.

[misko27]

that's unfortunate. I guess I'll continue assisting in the development of its pocket world carbon copy, Gnomoria.

I do enjoy what I've played of DF though.

You do that. Also, Stop talking about Gnomoria. There are a number of people on these forums who call it a rip-off. I personally disagree, but It still might inspire spurn.

Also, I can't believed no one asked.What will be the limits ofn non-fruit tree growths? Are liquids possible? Containers with objects in them? Animate things, Like elves?

[zwei]

It's tied to the fact that player fortresses have a variety of defenses/levers/general interactive things that would need to be left in play for a computer to handle. And since there are no proper ways for it to handle those, the player-run sites cannot be effectively run by the computer when left alone. This is the principle difficulty.

I wish Toady would at least do a place-holdery implementation that just ignores all that shit. I don't care if my fortress can kill the goblins with lava, I just want to be able to switch away from it to play adventure without having to lose all its residents or gen a separate world.

no, its mostly beacuse the players will leave it so a computer will destroy the fort. Think of it like this: The computers don't know hpw to operate Levers. If they ignore them, they run the risk of killing everyone. If they usethem, they run the risk of killing everyone. Its because its hard to determine intent, so they don't know if the drawbridge is there for sieges or when you flood everything with magma.

I think you are reading too much into it. All other sites are ran statistically and there is no reason player forts would be unable to operate under this conditions too.

Computer does not need to operate elaborate player designs - that is impossible problem unsolvable without players writing script to operate fort tailored for their fort themselves. Toady would have to write class-a AI to do general solution otherwise.

But game can easily see number of dwarves in military, their equipment and other stuff (like number of traps or siege engines), put it to fairly abstract "meatgrinder" to resolve siege and it would work out just fine just as battles are resolved in worldgen right now. Same working for industries and food production.

It does not have to be perfect, but i do not think it would be catastrophic either - it is mostly just turtle-ish forts without functioning army that will be harmed. Also, non-player forts are not subjected to as frequent sieges as player handled ones.

[eux0r]

Even if you had just 1-3 trusted individuals working on just doing 32x32 tiles of every asset in the game, and spending the time to give the renderer good transparancy and item stacking, that would speed pretty much the whole project along to being a beta version instead of just an alpha version.

Beta is the software development phase following alpha. It generally begins when the software is feature complete.
having "pretty graphics" does not magically make the game feature complete.

also, in my personal opinion some half-hearted graphics are a terrible thing to add to any game. i rather have the ascii-graphics which forcefully activate my own imagination which has great graphics.

on the topic of the place-holder-computer-controlled-player-fort: blah blah *repeating what zwei just said* blah blah