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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 3840350 times)

rhesusmacabre

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2625 on: July 09, 2012, 02:41:02 am »

During play, how often will the game update to account for events occuring in the world?

Dwarf Mode is somewhat removed from the world, so I guess that could be handled seasonally, but in Adventure Mode a significant change in the area you are in might be jarring.
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Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2626 on: July 09, 2012, 06:02:42 am »

I dont think language barriers has been brought up before by ToadyOne. There a few features that seem to imply that there is no lang. barrier, such as being able to read all the books you find, and exploration adventure role. There certainly hasn't be any sort of lang. barrier in the game so far.
Toady has talked about nearly everything at this point. Language barriers are in DF Talk 10, and language is also briefly discussed in DF Talk 17. It's in the questions segment both times. The short version of it is that Toady does intend to have some sort of language barrier, but he doesn't intend to make the player learn randomly generated languages.
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Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2627 on: July 09, 2012, 07:10:46 am »

I dont think language barriers has been brought up before by ToadyOne. There a few features that seem to imply that there is no lang. barrier, such as being able to read all the books you find, and exploration adventure role. There certainly hasn't be any sort of lang. barrier in the game so far.
Toady has talked about nearly everything at this point. Language barriers are in DF Talk 10, and language is also briefly discussed in DF Talk 17. It's in the questions segment both times. The short version of it is that Toady does intend to have some sort of language barrier, but he doesn't intend to make the player learn randomly generated languages.
While that's  true, the language talk has mostly concentrated on Adventure mode rather that Fortress mode, which is where darklord's question points.
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goukaryuujin

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2628 on: July 09, 2012, 08:50:06 am »

Since some mega beast are going to be intelegent, will it be possible to say, have a friendly forgotten beast wander onto site, or a neutral dragon pass through some time in the coming versions?
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stolide

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2629 on: July 09, 2012, 10:57:14 am »

Since some mega beast are going to be intelegent, will it be possible to say, have a friendly forgotten beast wander onto site, or a neutral dragon pass through some time in the coming versions?

Or better yet, megabeasts that have demands that can be met in return for sparing your fort. Perhaps that wandering hill giant won't ransack your fort, and potentially die, if you give him a few barrels of alcohol and some cattle.
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Miuramir

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2630 on: July 09, 2012, 02:04:44 pm »

Toady, I don't think you need to worry about non-lethal weapons just yet, because I assume that the most lethal object in most Dwarven barfights will be a Pick stool or chair. (Which could actually be pretty lethal if it's made of stone or metal  ???).

Oh wow, there's something to really consider. Furniture items are pretty stuck where they're placed. (With  few means for them to be moved around/destroyed without player direction). That could be a hairy problem to solve. Dorfs should be able to arrange the bar/inn furniture objects to their initial placement. But what would dorf do if a furniture object is broken during a bar/inn fight? Telegraphing that info to player may be tricky. But that could be a pretty interesting frame work. Dorfs being able to arrange the furniture on their own. Setting up barricades? There might be other nifty applications.

Somewhat bizarre (but IMO oddly workable) thought: use a modification of the "Pasture" function to handle furniture in certain rooms, such as a bar, etc.  As long as the furniture is inside the room, it's OK to be moved around by whatever means.  If it ends up outside the room, a job gets generated for a furniture hauler to move it back inside. 
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darklord92

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2631 on: July 09, 2012, 02:52:48 pm »

if were allowed to ask more than one question >.>

Will the inclusion of non lethal combat mean the hammerer and other executioners not be as prone to absolutely flattening criminals who they beat?
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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2632 on: July 09, 2012, 03:34:13 pm »

Toady, I don't think you need to worry about non-lethal weapons just yet, because I assume that the most lethal object in most Dwarven barfights will be a Pick stool or chair. (Which could actually be pretty lethal if it's made of stone or metal  ???).

Oh wow, there's something to really consider. Furniture items are pretty stuck where they're placed. (With  few means for them to be moved around/destroyed without player direction). That could be a hairy problem to solve. Dorfs should be able to arrange the bar/inn furniture objects to their initial placement. But what would dorf do if a furniture object is broken during a bar/inn fight? Telegraphing that info to player may be tricky. But that could be a pretty interesting frame work. Dorfs being able to arrange the furniture on their own. Setting up barricades? There might be other nifty applications.

Somewhat bizarre (but IMO oddly workable) thought: use a modification of the "Pasture" function to handle furniture in certain rooms, such as a bar, etc.  As long as the furniture is inside the room, it's OK to be moved around by whatever means.  If it ends up outside the room, a job gets generated for a furniture hauler to move it back inside.

Interesting idea, but you could end up with stone thrones moved away from tables in dining room, or cabinets blocking the exit in rooms if you only consider getting the furniture back in. This could probably be handled better through a job similar to cleaning, with a low priority except when it's out of the room, and as high as the lowest order requiring use of that object.
But anyway this requires fighting against the current framework right now. Rooms are made from these objects, around these objects and assume that they are fixed.
For all we know, a built throne could even be a totally different object than a being-carried-throne, rendering the idea non-trivial to say the least.

Let's hear what Toady has to say about it first.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2633 on: July 09, 2012, 03:48:18 pm »

I remember seeing some talk of having all rooms work similar to hospitals, where you have a zone designated for it and it uses the appropriate items within that zone. From what I remember it is a non-trivial task to convert all of the areas over to that framework, however.
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Kadzar

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2634 on: July 09, 2012, 05:34:33 pm »

I think it would be worth it, if only to make designating rooms less of a pain. Even if an empty room gave absolutely no bonuses, it would make micromanaging a lot easier. You could just plot out everyone's room at once, for example, and then just install beds as they're produced.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2635 on: July 09, 2012, 05:58:39 pm »

if were allowed to ask more than one question >.>

Will the inclusion of non lethal combat mean the hammerer and other executioners not be as prone to absolutely flattening criminals who they beat?
The Hammer is using a lethal weapon. So, I suppose if you take way the Hammer's hammer, then yea.
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vertinox

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2636 on: July 09, 2012, 06:08:39 pm »

Wow the two things I am looking forward to the most is the dwarven inns and the ability to send out your military from the fort on missions!

MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2637 on: July 09, 2012, 06:23:38 pm »

Wow the two things I am looking forward to the most is the dwarven inns and the ability to send out your military from the fort on missions!
Yea, those should be pretty things when they happen, but those are still marked as soon-then-later features. And ToadyOne isn't currently coding them. Though getting folks to move around live after world gen, and making goals for themselves are needed for you to be able to send out your armies.
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Hatman

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2638 on: July 09, 2012, 09:42:25 pm »

Regarding attack speeds: Are there any plans to implement variations on the speed of readying your weapon again after a blow? I would imagine that after swinging a giant axe blade or granite throne one would require a lot of time to bring it back up to a readied/guard position compared to a more conventional weapon, to give an extreme example.
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Rockphed

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2639 on: July 10, 2012, 01:42:54 am »

Regarding attack speeds: Are there any plans to implement variations on the speed of readying your weapon again after a blow? I would imagine that after swinging a giant axe blade or granite throne one would require a lot of time to bring it back up to a readied/guard position compared to a more conventional weapon, to give an extreme example.

I am fairly certain that such things are already in the process of being implemented.  See this section of the recent FotF reply by Toady One.

Quote from: trees
How will movement and attack speed be determined for different types of creatures? To clarify - will the game recognize that a hydra has many heads to bite with and automatically give it a faster attack speed, or will creatures like that need to have an equivalent of the current SPEED token? I suppose they could be tied to different attributes, too.

Each head will be able to engage in a separate attack with the same speed as, say, a dragon's single bite attack.  The attacks begin, strike, and finish concurrently (with the strike damage all happening in rapid succesion during the same tick, a few ticks after the attacks are initiated), and it won't be able to attack any faster than a normal biting creature (unless we decide it deserves a bonus for whatever cobra-strikey reason).  You won't need to calculate to find a proper timing.

Quote from: Miuramir
Toady, how does the movement/combat split affect creature, weapon, etc. raws?

Are weapon attack speeds entirely based on raw constants, calculated based on a mix of raw constants and internal code, or entirely generated from internal code?

Does weapon quality affect attack speed?

Will movement speed for dwarves be affected primarily by the existing Agility attribute, or will there be a split so that dwarves have differing attributes that control how fast they move and how efficiently they accomplish actions?

I have yet to muck around with the raws, but it'll come up very soon once I go back to that stuff once I'm done messing with entity claims.  I imagine attack raws will need basic speeds, perhaps broken into the pre/post strike periods, and that these'll be subject to attribute/skill improvements in many cases.

There are also two notions of attack speed -- the finer tuned velocity with which the strike damage, and the basic tick numbers, which by their nature have very little resolution to mess with (though it is possible to add resolution there in limited ways).  So if one sword swing hits at 100 and another hits at 120, they might both take 2 ticks to resolve, but the 120 will hit harder.  More importantly, when "heavy" and "fast" strikes are distinguished, the heavy strike will have a longer tick pre-strike period, but will actually be harder (higher velocity) when it hits, where the "fast" strike will have a short pre-strike period but hit with a lower damaging velocity.  These are distinctions which will certainly be in by combat styles, perhaps before.

I think weapon quality effects the strike velocity.  I'm not sure if there's enough resolution in the ticks to mess with the pre-strike period much.

In the currently released version, movement speed is affected by strength and agility equally, though strength also bulks muscled parts which decreases speed so agility is better overall.  I don't have a plan to change that.  When it comes to jobs, everything is up in the air now that movement is an action -- doing jobs is now utterly independent of the movement action, but I think it still feeds them the movement delay.  That'll definitely be changed for this release, and like you suggest, it'll likely be replaced either by a constant or something more appropriate for the job.
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