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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 3840429 times)

Willfor

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2250 on: June 01, 2012, 04:01:56 pm »

Toward the end of its life it was basically spreading misinformation about where development was going next. People who only saw the list and didn't pay attention to the DF Talks thought certain features were going to be put off for a very long time (notably, bringing the world gen only progress to the rest of the modes). This, in turn, led to gripes.

While this new setup has less listing functionality, it is also far less constricting. I kinda like that.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2251 on: June 01, 2012, 04:02:30 pm »

It's a shame we've lost the more concrete and linear plan for the caravan arc. It was real handy to be able to point people at it and say "this is the current plan". It might not have been all that solid of a plan in how closely actual development correlated to it, but the huge list of features doesn't tell you anything about what's planned for the near future compared to what might still be a few years out.

I'm assuming Toady is going to put up something more akin to a "this is what we are doing next" once he has a better idea of what it actually is. 

As it stood, Toady only did one of the things on that list of releases, and wound up doing other unrelated things with most of his time while rearranging what he was going to do, when.  I think Toady is just plain not going to try to guess what he's going to be doing more than one or two releases out from now on, since he seemed to admit that he lets himself get taken by the moment too often to really be able to plan that far out. 
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Elone

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2252 on: June 01, 2012, 08:38:15 pm »

Can you move the military equipment presets into an init file, just like how embark profiles are now? This would be an easy way to spread them to all forts as a sort of default, and enabling players to rearrange the entries, and edit them with additional ease. I can imagine this change being particularly well received.
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Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2253 on: June 01, 2012, 08:51:42 pm »

I don't really care how much of a suggestion-question that is, it's still a great idea.

Chthonic

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2254 on: June 01, 2012, 09:01:13 pm »

Can you move the military equipment presets into an init file, just like how embark profiles are now? This would be an easy way to spread them to all forts as a sort of default, and enabling players to rearrange the entries, and edit them with additional ease. I can imagine this change being particularly well received.

I'm keen on that.
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2255 on: June 01, 2012, 09:32:45 pm »

Some questions were addressed by the intervening releases and dev logs, so I left those off.  Thanks to people that answered some of the other questions (MrWiggles, Willfor, Footkerchief, Rafal99, thvaz, NW_Kohaku, Putnam, Knight Otu, Greiger, Arkenstone, greenskye, and thems what was missed).

Quote
Quote from: Kogut
So Caravan Arc is dumped?
Quote from: Knight Otu
Several caravan arc goals have been shuffled into the other development goals (the 3d minerals/mine maps and villager schedules of the former release 2 have been added to the Trader role, for instance). There's a number I can't find, but I guess they're counting as goals that were already on the list. And since Toady hasn't quite gone by just the goal groups, I'd say that Caravan Arc continues along with the hero stuff, or after that.

Everything from the previous release list should be contained somewhere on there.  The hero role has seven or so additions, and I've fleshed out the tavern/inns.

Quote from: Chronas
Does the stance of a creature have any effect on how a colliding cart affects them?
Does flesh material have an effect on collisions?

Grounded units have more trouble dodging, but it doesn't change anything else I can remember.  The collisions are resolved as combat strikes, so all the standard material/size stuff matters.

Quote from: Uristocrat
What happens to magma-filled minecarts that are not magma-safe?  Do they take long enough to melt that we can make cannons that shoot globs of molten lead and magma at our enemies?  And do molten minecarts retain their momentum?

I'm not sure.  There's ostensibly a container/item temperature interface that should cause something to happen, but I have no idea if it works.  If the cart actually became a glob...  it probably doesn't work.  I imagine it has to remake the projectile if the item changes type, and it probably loses all the momentum information there.

Quote from: Calathar
Are you looking at expanding the concept of the minecart "object" to other objects that might function similarly with regard to the physics and collision - like boulder traps Indiana Jones style?

Rolling boulders were one of the things we didn't get to, but the vehicles are set up with those in mind, since we know we'll do them at some point.

Quote from: Urist Da Vinci
Since you are tackling bugfixing again, how is the Mantis bug tracker working for you? I know that you've had it at least since early 2010, and that several volunteers help filter out duplicate entries and "not bugs". Are there other ways here that the community could make the system more effective?

I'd defer to the judgment of the tracker managers on the overall technical aspects of the system -- their efforts have made it work to the extent that it does.  I think it is going okay, but I don't have a lot of experience with this kind of software, in terms of knowing what other features would help.  It works better than the forum section did.  The saves that get put on dffd and linked from the tracker are probably the most valuable resource, since they both confirm the circumstances of the bug and cut the bugfixing time down by many times in some cases (I know there's been a new push to put equipment bug saves up there, and I'm still planning to get to those before I move on).

Quote from: eux0r
what about the edges of the local field? sometimes a good embark position is with one half on one local map and with the other half on the next, but since moving the local map has no overlapping, those embark-areas can never be used, will this change with your current work?

Sites can now overlap the edges in general (like the large town sites do), but I think there are still complications with allowing this in dwarf mode, since the older code portions like to have one world map tile coordinate.

Quote from: Neonivek
Toady have you ever felt like you would rather keep a placeholder in the game as it was, instead of doing the planned updates later? I am actually reminded of the Good and Evil lands and how you actually seem to have a more solid idea of how they work then the planned Sphere lands.

I think it's natural that the existing idea would be more solid, since good/evil lands have been in the game a long time and have various associated features.  I still think it's better to have more interesting things going on.

Quote from: Vattic
Will these [combat arc dev items]
Also include things like much larger creatures being able to stomp on much smaller ones and similar? Larger creatures could just barge others using their bulk as a weapon. It need not stop at attacks of course, darting trough a giants legs would be cool.

When people are attacking large beasts in the new ways, it would be fair to give the beasts more options as well, but it's hard to say how it'll play out.  I think it would fit the feel of the game if a large creature could utterly obliterate a small critter into a paste item as long as they got a shot to dodge out of the way.  With the reaction moments, it would also be a chance for you to jump on the leg (or attempt something borderline foolish like holding a pointed weapon up at the bottom of the foot).  Charge attacks from large creatures already give a very large chance for the smaller creature to be knocked over.
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Dante

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2256 on: June 02, 2012, 03:39:34 am »

Can you move the military equipment presets into an init file, just like how embark profiles are now? This would be an easy way to spread them to all forts as a sort of default, and enabling players to rearrange the entries, and edit them with additional ease. I can imagine this change being particularly well received.

I'm keen on that.
Oh my, me too.

Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2257 on: June 02, 2012, 03:45:56 am »

Quote
I think it's natural that the existing idea would be more solid, since good/evil lands have been in the game a long time and have various associated features.  I still think it's better to have more interesting things going on.

I was worried that my question would be misunderstood for a question on whether or not Toady would be switching up the good/evil lands... This wasn't really what I was asking. Unless of course Toady actually had no answer for my question.

Which is possible
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2258 on: June 02, 2012, 03:57:27 am »

Were you asking if I could think of an example?  I think there are things like that which have come up before, but I can't think offhand of a plan actually being trashed, rather than some random thing just becoming accepted as part of the game.
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2259 on: June 02, 2012, 04:03:14 am »

Were you asking if I could think of an example?  I think there are things like that which have come up before, but I can't think offhand of a plan actually being trashed, rather than some random thing just becoming accepted as part of the game.

I'll take that as the answer.

Thank you toady.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 02:50:26 pm by Neonivek »
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Kogut

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2260 on: June 02, 2012, 04:21:28 am »

Quote from: Kogut
So Caravan Arc is dumped?
Everything from the previous release list should be contained somewhere on there.
But there are no longer planned to be done in the near future, right? (Poor, poor 3D veins :( )

The saves that get put on dffd and linked from the tracker are probably the most valuable resource, since they both confirm the circumstances of the bug and cut the bugfixing time down by many times in some cases (I know there's been a new push to put equipment bug saves up there, and I'm still planning to get to those before I move on).

Examples of bugs without saves:

0001445: Weapon Racks do nothing. http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1445

0000417: Axedwarf with missing hand wields shield and axe in same hand. http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=417

0000756: Haulers try to store clothing dropped by militia, mass confusion ensues  http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=756
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 04:25:11 am by Kogut »
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Rafal99

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2261 on: June 02, 2012, 04:59:07 am »

The saves that get put on dffd and linked from the tracker are probably the most valuable resource, since they both confirm the circumstances of the bug and cut the bugfixing time down by many times in some cases (I know there's been a new push to put equipment bug saves up there, and I'm still planning to get to those before I move on).

Nice!
I will try to create some fresh saves for the bugs I experienced.


Edit:
Ninja'ed by Kogut.
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Vattic

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2262 on: June 02, 2012, 05:10:42 am »

Quote from: Vattic
Will these [combat arc dev items]
Also include things like much larger creatures being able to stomp on much smaller ones and similar? Larger creatures could just barge others using their bulk as a weapon. It need not stop at attacks of course, darting trough a giants legs would be cool.

When people are attacking large beasts in the new ways, it would be fair to give the beasts more options as well, but it's hard to say how it'll play out.  I think it would fit the feel of the game if a large creature could utterly obliterate a small critter into a paste item as long as they got a shot to dodge out of the way.  With the reaction moments, it would also be a chance for you to jump on the leg (or attempt something borderline foolish like holding a pointed weapon up at the bottom of the foot).  Charge attacks from large creatures already give a very large chance for the smaller creature to be knocked over.

Thank you for the quick reply. Personally I think it would be good if there was a size check for these kinds of attacks. Then smaller critters might jump on your human adventurers leg and try and climb you like you would a giant. Being able to stomp on anything smaller would mean you could stomp on fluffy warblers or a goblin shrunk by magic mushrooms (or even someone's toes). I should have been more specific but I meant to ask more about this kind of size check in relation to "special" attacks.
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isitanos

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2263 on: June 02, 2012, 12:34:39 pm »

Just wanted to chime in to thank Toady for the recent bugfixes and improvements to dwarf behavior when building/removing stuff. He addressed quite a few things I had been complaining about, and those fixes sound like they'll make the game a lot more enjoyable. I'm especially excited about less micromanagement of large constructions (and large holes?).
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bombzero

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2264 on: June 02, 2012, 01:05:45 pm »

Thank you for the quick reply. Personally I think it would be good if there was a size check for these kinds of attacks. Then smaller critters might jump on your human adventurers leg and try and climb you like you would a giant. Being able to stomp on anything smaller would mean you could stomp on fluffy warblers or a goblin shrunk by magic mushrooms (or even someone's toes). I should have been more specific but I meant to ask more about this kind of size check in relation to "special" attacks.

And if it also checks stance, next stop, curb stomping.
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