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[Elone]

Being that this is a general hauling overhaul, I will ask this as well. Will there be a one-time command of some sort to consolidate items in stockpiles? So that a whole bin isnt taken up by a single sock, but the sock is placed in a bin where there is some room left?

The reason why I'd think this to be a onetime command thing is twofold. One is that the CPU load might be significant if the checks were made constantly, this way the player can pick the best moment for it to happen (think seasonal, except you can choose it to happen when there isnt a raid or a FB in fort). The other reason is because Toady seems comfortable with this approach, with how he made dwarves dress/undress/dump clothing on command. It would be much like windows defrag, come to think of it XD including the socks moved during the defrag itself.

[Putnam]

Suggestions best go in the suggestion forum >_>

[Kogut]

It is awesome! It will be possible to collect gifts from goblins in a efficient way! I hope that there is no need to use bin/bag whatever to haul single item.

[MrWiggles]

I think you only made a suggestion Elone.

I'm pretty sure there an entire forum for suggestions. Not sure. But I'm pretty sure this isn't in the suggestion forum.

UNGREEN.

[thvaz]

What really bothers me are the rocks and the loot from invaders (though the loot are mostly fixed now with dwarves carrying bins around).


What about the so called quantum stockpiles? They are currently used to reduce time spent with hauling(among other things) ...do you plan to do something about them?

[Kelvron]

I can't wait to see how Toady improves hauling. I figure he agrees with the community in having dorfs pick up multiple items in the same area, e.g. cleaning up after an ambush/siege. The DF2012/DF.34.xx has been a blast to play around with. Especially after the worldgen slowdowns/bugs/crashes got improved upon.

Keep up the awesome work!

[Footkerchief]

I'm really curious as to HOW Toady did it. The forums have discussed it for years and the best theory I've ever heard is that a dwarf would automatically look for hauling tasks starting and ending in nearby places.

So my question is, erm, how did you do that?

My guess is that when a dwarf grabs an item for hauling, it does a quick floodfill to check the surrounding area for another item that has the same destination as the first item.

[MrWiggles]

I'm really curious as to HOW Toady did it. The forums have discussed it for years and the best theory I've ever heard is that a dwarf would automatically look for hauling tasks starting and ending in nearby places.

So my question is, erm, how did you do that?

My guess is that when a dwarf grabs an item for hauling, it does some small, inexpensive floodfills to check the surrounding area for other items going to the same place.

I dont think that would work. I think I've read a thread where it shows that Jobs pick dorfs, instead of dorfs picking jobs.

So doing the floodcheck for other items wouldn't work.

I think jobs that can be placed in a shared stock pile are checked against a distance cut off from the previous item with an arbitrary cut off number for the grouping. (I suspect that dorf personality traits can cut off how many objects they'll actually get.) So jobs group themselves into Master Jobs with a collection of Slave Jobs.

[Jiri Petru]

With more effective hauling, dwarves will have more time to spend on productive working. This means they will produce more. But we already have an overabundance of items in fortress mode, and there's so many of them that many items become virtually worthless (for the player, that is). Dwarfpower is rarely a trouble – on the contrary, it is often difficult to find enough work for all of your lazers. With more effective hauling, we'll have even more lazers. Is this something you recognize as a problem? If yes, have you considered any solutions?

[Halconnen]

I dont think that would work. I think I've read a thread where it shows that Jobs pick dorfs, instead of dorfs picking jobs.

So doing the floodcheck for other items wouldn't work.

I think jobs that can be placed in a shared stock pile are checked against a distance cut off from the previous item with an arbitrary cut off number for the grouping. (I suspect that dorf personality traits can cut off how many objects they'll actually get.) So jobs group themselves into Master Jobs with a collection of Slave Jobs.

My assumption would be that whatever manager-function creates the hauling jobs now checks for other nearby items that would match the same stockpile, then creates one new 'bin hauling' job with all the applicable items marked, rather than spamming one job for every item.

[MrWiggles]

With more effective hauling, dwarves will have more time to spend on productive working. This means they will produce more. But we already have an overabundance of items in fortress mode, and there's so many of them that many items become virtually worthless (for the player, that is). Is this something you have given any consideration to? Are there any plans to reevaluate item abundance, and if yes, what are they? Changing job speed, implementing economy, making items break...?

Yes. Fortress Mode Econ will be eventually getting redone during these Caravan Release. And that will probably touch upon item creation, skill increase, raw materiel consumption.

Release 4 (Particularly Inns and Fairs), Release 5, and Release 6 for Fort Mode integration. Release 8 may also see dorfs using their items differently, possibly even 'consuming' items and tossing them into the bin. Though the personality rewrite is more about having villains and motivation for Necromancers and Wars for the Army Arc.

And during these releases maybe well also see Improved Farming, Fortress Subgroups, (Their demands could totally eat up Forts excess goods to some extend), and Improved Mechanics (which contains a rock crusher on the wish list and it'll also give us more things to use for making forts and for maintaing forts.)

And Toady One has touched upon items breaking done more consistently and universally in Fort Mode, but as we've seen with clothing, that just apparently create lots of issues.

[MrWiggles]

What the heck is Release 5?

Release 5 seems redundant with Release 6 and Release 9. Is Release 5 about getting ready for Release 6 and Release 9?

[Knight Otu]

Release 5 is a whole different thing from releases six and nine (though yes, they do interlock). It's about moving stuff that only happens during world gen into actual play - using food (and starvation), moving goods between sites, basic succession (so that playing a fortress doesn't guarantee the end of monarchy as dwarves know it), that type of thing. There have been many posts about release 5, its importance for the concept of the game as a whole (playing the world), and the likelihood that the release (along with the personality/needs rewrite from release 8 ) to be earlier than that (I think a recent post in the last FotF thread has that particular bit). There's also a bit in DF Talk #14 about that.

[MrWiggles]

Release 5 is a whole different thing from releases six and nine (though yes, they do interlock). It's about moving stuff that only happens during world gen into actual play - using food (and starvation), moving goods between sites, basic succession (so that playing a fortress doesn't guarantee the end of monarchy as dwarves know it), that type of thing. There have been many posts about release 5, its importance for the concept of the game as a whole (playing the world), and the likelihood that the release (along with the personality/needs rewrite from release 8 ) to be earlier than that (I think a recent post in the last FotF thread has that particular bit). There's also a bit in DF Talk #14 about that.

Yea, Toady has said that he's considering about reordering the list, but we probably wont see that until this summer, or late spring when he gets done with this cycle of bug fixes.

[Name Lips]

This hauling upgrade is the best thing ever.

It looks like restacking is finally going to exist. All those Plump Helmet Seeds are now Plump Helmet Seed[5]!

Think of the implications for ammo -- dropped arrows could be melted in one job instead of 30! And restackable coins! (If we ever get an economy again.)

Perhaps dwarves will just go "clean up their clothing" in one job, running around the fort finding all their socks and shoes!

BTW, while I'm thinking about random socks, do cabinets in barracks work yet? I set all my barracks to store personal items, but they still leave their socks all over the floor. Maybe they figuring "storing" them on the floor is good enough. Maybe I should make a small adjoining barracks that exists only for storage purposes...