Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[lordnincompoop]

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to agree with Vector - there just isn't enough going for this to make it a potential purchase, and lack of any apparent grammar editing makes it feel like a pushed-out draft than a properly finished novella.

Though I certainly admire your willpower for having written something this long (I've only ever managed something like 5k words myself, and it was horribly dreary by the end of it), your efforts would likely be best spent on trying both to refine your writing style, your literary background, and your grasp of English grammar and diction. Your text lacks some flow and punctuation; I found it rather difficult to focus of individual words and often found myself simply skimming through the text, none of the words touching me very deeply.

As an example, consider this snippet of text from your excerpt:

The war of the light started a hundred years ago with the discovery of lament. The world back then was ruled and controlled by magic. Magic was used to do everything from important things such as fighting to doing mundane tasks such as laundry or mining. The land during this time was ruled by 3 kingdoms, the Kingdom of Sparken populated by the dwarves, the kingdom of Vakt populated by the humans, and the kingdom of Harth populated with elves.  These three kingdoms co-existed peacefully for centuries side by side. This all changed with the discovery of lament.

Each sentence is short and declarative, almost seeming like texts unto themselves. By letting these sentences flow a little more naturally into each other, and letting periods come in only when they need to, you can make this sound a little better:

The War of the Light started a hundred years ago with the discovery of Lament.

The world back then was ruled and controlled by magic - it was used to do everything from important things, such as fighting, to mundane tasks, such as laundry or mining. The land during this time was also ruled by 3 kingdoms: the Kingdom of Sparken, populated by the dwarves; the kingdom of Vakt, populated by the humans; and the kingdom of Harth, populated with elves.  These three kingdoms co-existed peacefully for centuries, side by side.

This all changed with the discovery of Lament.

The textbookish tone and style/diction errors notwithstanding, I do believe this version sounds better - and all I did was sprinkle in some dashes and commas, changing an odd word or two to conform.

[G-Flex]

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to agree with Vector - there just isn't enough going for this to make it a potential purchase, and lack of any apparent grammar editing makes it feel like a pushed-out draft than a properly finished novella.

Yeah, this is what I was trying to get at myself. When you try to sell something without bothering to even proofread it yourself, that is insulting to your potential customers, because it shows you don't care to even make a cursory effort at giving them a passable product for their money.

[Deadmeat1471]

I think we can all agree, this guy needs an editor. Anyone volunteering? or just gonna rip him apart about it 

[Lord Dullard]

I think we can all agree, this guy needs an editor. Anyone volunteering? or just gonna rip him apart about it 

Per my original post:

I suspect most editors would reject what you've written outright on the basis of the grammar alone, because most people aren't going to want to crawl through something of that size making the amount of corrections that would be necessary to translate it to a more readable state.

You are just as able to volunteer as anybody else, you know.

I think most people with the literary capability to act as editors would have a reasonable expectation of working with something slightly less error-ridden. Their job is to catch mistakes and make things more concise and fluid, not to redesign an entire novel from the ground up (unless you are lucky enough to find a phenomenally patient editor).

[G-Flex]

He doesn't need an editor. Well, maybe he does, but more importantly, he needs to improve his written communication skills. He needs someone to fix his elementary mistakes far less than he needs to proofread his own work.

[Willfor]

You lost me at the first sentence. Well, second sentence.

“Retreat, Retreat for your lives!!!” The order was screamed out by the platoon captain before it was drowned out by the volume of his screams [...]

The order he was screaming was drowned out by the sound of his own screams? How does that work? Simultaneous multiple screaming?

Oh, and the sentence after that has a pretty flagrant grammatical error. Stuff like this doesn't make a good first impression.

Also, I'm sorry, but "licked by the approaching flame and then combust into a magical flame holocaust" is a phrase I will probably never, ever be able to take seriously. Never overkill a sentence that badly.

The fact that you published this with such poor grammar (see: "the a horror to behold") says something. Why would you expect people to pay money for something without even proofreading it?

I believe he's already acknowledged the failings of the grammar, if not the specific points you mentioned. Specific examples are well and good, but he's already promised to follow through on the more general matter of grammar. I don't feel it needs to be addressed unless it becomes an apparent problem again in the future. Not that it won't, however it would be a show of good faith.

^ reposting

Guys, we dealt with this issue within the first few posts of this thread, you're beating a horse that has already been shot, killed, and beaten, and eaten.

[Stronghammer]

Thx again, I will continue to endeavour to improve my clearly lacking capabilities. And to better facilitate that improvement, and so that I do not continue to insult potential customers, I have unpublished my book. 

[G-Flex]

Yes his grammar may have errors but every artist has to start somewhere. The fact that so many of you have joined the Stronghammer hatred cult is disgusting. It would seem your mantra is "Bad grammar". One comment about grammar okay. Everyone repeating this point over and over will only discourage the writer and to be honest it is bullying. As far as I was aware if you didn't have anything nice to say you shouldn't say anything at all. So with all do respect. If you are just going to comment simply to torture him further I suggest you fuck off.

I apologize; I didn't know his mother posted at these forums. I'm aware we may have been a little caustic, and I'm sorry for that. I just felt I saw a lack of care go into making this work ready for publication, and people need to be more concerned about that when they're actually taking other people's money in exchange for it.

[Stronghammer]

Any who, unpleasantness aside. I have done a little editing and was wondering if you guys think im off in the right direction. Oh and since the book is no longer for sale, everyone need not worry about money being taken without due compensation. And besides it was not a lack of effort on my part it was more of a "OMG I just finished writing and am now going to rush editing cause I wants to share it." Thank you gentlemen (and ladies) for informing me on it needing to be done. This is merely a bump in the road, and a learning experience. Any ways blathering aside, please tell me what you think about this fixed up bit.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 “Retreat, Retreat for your lives!!!” Yelled the platoon captain before being cut off by the dying screams of nearby soldiers. Those soldiers’ screams were soon joined by others as the Cleansers flame spread further threw the field. The Cleansers were ruthless and deadly efficient, as they made their way slowly through the Vakt ranks. They “Cleansed “everything they could see, watching as countless soldiers attempted to flee only to be consumed by the approaching flame. Any that were caught by the flame, soon became burnt cinders as the magical flame consumed them. The Cleansers were a horror to behold and nothing could stop them or the burn of their magical fire.
   It was clear to all that the Dark Ones had won the battle. The army of the Vakt was routed, and it seemed that none would survive the ordeal. This was just another lost battle in an endless tide of losing battles with the Dark Ones in the war of the light.
   The war of the light started a hundred years ago with the discovery of a mineral later named lament. The world before lament, was ruled and controlled by magic. Magic was used to do everything. From important tasks such as fighting to mundane tasks such as laundry or mining. The continent at this time was ruled by 3 kingdoms. The Kingdom of Sparken populated by the dwarves, the kingdom of Vakt populated by the humans, and the kingdom of Harth populated with elves.  These three kingdoms co-existed peacefully for centuries side by side. This all changed with the discovery of lament.

[Lord Dullard]

As far as I was aware if you didn't have anything nice to say you shouldn't say anything at all. So with all do respect. If you are just going to comment simply to torture him further I suggest you fuck off.

Wow, that's really over-dramatic. I didn't post just to be harsh, even if my comments could be interpreted as being overly blunt. Rather, I wanted to prepare the poster for what to expect. He made an honest endeavor and he deserves to know the kind of expectations that exist if he wants to succeed and one day make money off of his work. At any rate, I don't think the tone of the conversation needs to be escalated to the level of saying 'fuck off' to anybody.

Stronghammer, if you'd like, I'd be more than happy to help you out with grammar a bit. I don't have the time to edit a lot, but I wouldn't mind going through a chapter or two (given their length, perhaps more than that) on my next day off. I am not a professional editor or anything like that, but English is by far my best subject.

[Vector]

I'm still not convinced I want to buy it or spend a lot of time reading it on the net (I might have when I was younger, but my tastes/standards have changed a lot through the years), but it's one hell of a lot better.

You're focusing on big things like troop movements, countries, and so on, whereas the standard for high fantasy (to increase reader engagement) is to at least have one developed, fleshed out character for each group you're going to deal with--unless you're doing that "lone hero against the faceless enemy" thing.

Spoiler: Point-by-point response to Keys (click to show/hide)

Stronghammer has endeavored to improve himself through the written word and by all of you so quickly casting aside his bravery and effort you have discouraged him to the point where he probably won't write ever again never-mind improving the book he has no doubt worked very hard on.

First of all, you're selling him short.  If he's got the guts to post his first effort at 20,000 pages with no proofreading and try to sell it on Amazon (something I could never do--I can hardly stand to post anything creative on the net), I trust that he's got the guts to deal with people saying "no, I don't like this."  "You need to proofread so that I can better judge your work on its literary merits" is not a soul-breaking criticism, and as you can see he has taken it well... as expected.

This man has the courage to delve into his imagination with all the creativity he can muster and come out the other side with a piece of literature. I think that is more than I could say for most of you. Why would you comment if only to say you don't like it? How does that help him or nurture his urge to write?

The reason why I criticize his writing is because I've spent thousands of hours both reading and writing it.  Hell, I wrote a 60,000-word outline for a novel in two weeks (about a year ago.  The project went nowhere).  I remember going home every day after middle school and writing 7+ hours a day, agonizing over every word, getting a friend to read it and criticize the everloving hell out of that thing.  I ended up with 300 pages of unfinished novel, plus maybe 100-200 pages of cut material, that I never showed to anyone else.  Because it was shit, and I knew it.

I want to encourage him to write.  I also want to encourage him to proofread.  If you don't fix all the errors you can find yourself, then you're going to exhaust your reader correcting surface errors when they could be getting into serious, artistic, structural stuff.  You're not just wasting the reader's time.  You're wasting your own time, and anticipation, and energy.  This is a big deal, which is why I said something about it.

bravery ... courage ... delve into his imagination with all the creativity he can muster ... literature ... crushed him into the ground ... hatred cult ... torture

And again, as an occasional amateurish writer, I'm going to say that I don't think you know what any of these words mean.

If I thought this were all he were capable of, then maybe I'd say "yeah, it's very nice" or just leave him alone.  But the idea is semi-interesting, and he clearly has ambition.  But because I think he has more to offer, I can't just assume he's delving into his imagination with all the creativity he can muster.  I have to assume that there's more, and he just hasn't figured out how to bring it out yet.  I can't assume that he'll be crushed into the ground, because I have to assume that he's strong enough to take it.

To write is to sail into the wind with neither charts nor sextant, and pray that whatever you find on your voyage is interesting.  It's rough.  It's stormy.  It's heartbreaking.  It's insufflation.  It's an exercise in vulnerability, from start to finish, as you invite the reader to partake of yourself and hope for immortality on the page.

So no, I'm not going to hand him an anchor.  I'm going to tell him that the first thing he needs is an airtight sail, and then he can worry about where he's steering his ship.

[lordnincompoop]

Vector's covered much of what I've wanted to say and invested quite a bit more time than I am willing to do myself, so I'll place a content free "I agree" here and move on to the new excerpt.

“Retreat, Retreat for your lives!!!” Yelled the platoon captain before being cut off by the dying screams of nearby soldiers. Those soldiers’ screams were soon joined by others as the Cleansers flame spread further threw the field. The Cleansers were ruthless and deadly efficient, as they made their way slowly through the Vakt ranks. They “Cleansed “everything they could see, watching as countless soldiers attempted to flee only to be consumed by the approaching flame. Any that were caught by the flame, soon became burnt cinders as the magical flame consumed them. The Cleansers were a horror to behold and nothing could stop them or the burn of their magical fire.
   It was clear to all that the Dark Ones had won the battle. The army of the Vakt was routed, and it seemed that none would survive the ordeal. This was just another lost battle in an endless tide of losing battles with the Dark Ones in the war of the light.
   The war of the light started a hundred years ago with the discovery of a mineral later named lament. The world before lament, was ruled and controlled by magic. Magic was used to do everything. From important tasks such as fighting to mundane tasks such as laundry or mining. The continent at this time was ruled by 3 kingdoms. The Kingdom of Sparken populated by the dwarves, the kingdom of Vakt populated by the humans, and the kingdom of Harth populated with elves.  These three kingdoms co-existed peacefully for centuries side by side. This all changed with the discovery of lament.

You're missing formatting and proper punctuation. First off, I'll repair what you haven't, just by the book (I've replaced indentation with newlines, FYI):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

“Retreat, Retreat for your lives!” yelled the platoon captain, before being cut off by the dying screams of nearby soldiers.
<new paragraph>
Those soldiers’ screams were soon joined by others as the Cleansers' flame spread further through the field. The Cleansers were ruthless and deadly efficient, as they made their way slowly through the Vakt ranks. They “Cleansed” everything they could see, watching as countless soldiers attempted to flee only to be consumed by the approaching flame. Any that were caught by the flame, soon became burnt cinders as the magical flame consumed them. The Cleansers were a horror to behold, and nothing could stop them or the burn of their magical fire.

It was clear to all that the Dark Ones had won the battle. The army of the Vakt was routed, and it seemed that none would survive the ordeal. This was just another lost battle in an endless tide of losing battles with the Dark Ones in the War of the Light.

The War of the Light started a hundred years ago with the discovery of a mineral later named lament. The world before lament, was ruled and controlled by magic. Magic was used to do everything. From important tasks, such as fighting, to mundane tasks, such as laundry or mining. The continent at this time was ruled by 3 kingdoms. The Kingdom of Sparken populated by the dwarves, the kingdom of Vakt populated by the humans, and the kingdom of Harth populated with elves.  These three kingdoms co-existed peacefully for centuries side by side. This all changed with the discovery of lament.

There are still numerous style issues to be addressed, but truly good diction and literary flair can only reasonably be acquired through rigorous study of the language (until you are, at the very least, a native-level speaker) and prolific reading and analysis of books in and outside your chosen genre. Some of it can be learned just through instruction, yes, but it wouldn't have soul; the painter who learns solely through study of papers on colour theory and rigid texts or paint-by-number sets might be able to achieve photographic realism with enough diligence, but without a sense of artistry and emotion, and plenty of exposure to life and other painters/paintings, they'll never create works of art with as much heart as Frida Kahlo or with the warmth and life of Rembrandt. I believe a certain Paul Lockhart said something similar.

[Deadmeat1471]

I think we can all agree, this guy needs an editor. Anyone volunteering? or just gonna rip him apart about it 

Per my original post:

I suspect most editors would reject what you've written outright on the basis of the grammar alone, because most people aren't going to want to crawl through something of that size making the amount of corrections that would be necessary to translate it to a more readable state.

You are just as able to volunteer as anybody else, you know.

I think most people with the literary capability to act as editors would have a reasonable expectation of working with something slightly less error-ridden. Their job is to catch mistakes and make things more concise and fluid, not to redesign an entire novel from the ground up (unless you are lucky enough to find a phenomenally patient editor).

You've obviously never read anything i've written 
I actually did considering offering my help as I am unemployed and sick, so I have both time and nothing to do. But to be fair my knowledge of english is relevant to historical essays, I write fiction sometimes as a hobby, thats it. I think it would be counter productive for someone who isn't at least very competant in writing to assist anyone else.

Comment to the lone rager - Good spelling/sentence structure does not a good book make.
The content is whats important. If the worst problem he has is he needs to brush up on his english abit, he is in an awesome position to be a writer.

*Side note, your grammar s awful lone rager, you need to retake your english lessons and stop writing in a block of text rage.
I think mr OP writer could definitely teach you a thing or two. It's called paragraphs, try them.

[Stronghammer]

Thanks for all the responses guys (and girls if they are present, and im to thick to notice) its good to get feed back. First as to the style of developed hero, versus faceless enemy. I have created characters for both good and bad, and do develop them however my first chapter was really to set the scene for the story to take place. Second as to the formatting and paragraphing, with Ebook sadly from what I have noticed is that even when I take to time to carefully space out my book, the program or auto-formatting thing that Amazon uses, just sticks everything together, with some of the spacing carrying over. However I will continue my endeavour to improve on that. As to the offer on Lord Dullard's part, I would absolutely love any help in the regards of editing. However if I do send you a couple of chapters, I will be sure to go through them more carefully as I did with the repost of some of chapter one. Thanks everyone for their input and suggestions. 

[Lord Dullard]

Hey Stronghammer, I have the next couple of days off. If you wanted me to have a go at an edit of some of your text, feel free to e-mail it to me (my e-mail is linked to my account here).