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Author Topic: Beekeeper logic: Applications  (Read 5825 times)

Hotaru

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Beekeeper logic: Applications
« on: February 11, 2012, 10:48:24 am »
Well, inspired by this thread I now have a massive desire to construct beekeeper applications. Actually I was designing a full computer in my mind already, called BIOS (beekeeper input/output system).

However, my main computer actually had a hard drive failure and I can't play DF for a while. So I'm drawing stuff in paint instead. Maybe it's like a teaser? Tell me if you feel like trying to implement something.

The main idea here is, it's been suggested you can make a beekeeper loop to an imaginary hive forever by building a hatch under the imaginary hive and forcing him to path through a plate opening it. If workable without too much lag (have yet to test), this can make it REALLY easy to construct applications with just one beekeeping unit. Automation is within everyone's reach.

No more exotic components than hives, beekeepers, doors and pressure plates are needed for any component so far, although if you want to build more extensive memory or an abstract input system maybe you want a fluid cistern too.

Some ideas so far:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edit: forgot in my excited state the counter and wait until things need toggles, as well as the idea of switching loops. That's pretty simple to make though, one square of water and pressure plate.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 11:25:01 am by Hotaru »
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It is said knowledge is like a foul-smelling herb. It must be cooked well and thoroughly with experience to make it palatable. A young scholar's knowledge is therefore not only worthless but disgusting. -- In Dwarf Fortress you have another paradigm. Gather as much of that smelly herb as you can and toss it at your enemy, fracturing his skull through the +capybara man leather cap+.

miauw62

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Re: Beekeeper logic: Applications
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2012, 02:21:53 pm »
I cannot understand your *paint drawings*
Some more explanation please?
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wierd

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Re: Beekeeper logic: Applications
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2012, 02:59:10 pm »
I understand them...

The dwarf will path back to the "imaginary" hive, (really, a bug where DF does not update to the fack that a previously existing hive no longer exists when trying to get bees for another hive, causing a dwarf to path to a specific tile, and stand around like a construction worker)

On his way, he steps on a pressure plate that opens a hatch.  The hatch is exactly where the "imaginay" hive is. When he steps on it, there is a momentary delay before the hatch will open, in which the dwarf will make it to the hatch cover.  It then opens underneath him, plopping his dumpy drunk butt into the room below.  By giving him only a specific route back up to the imaginary hive (dwarves impacted by the bug are extremely persistent in trying to collect the no longer existing bee colony), you force him to step on a series of additional pressure plates, which drives the logic.

The drawings depict different pressureplate configurations to get different logical operations. (And, or, xor, nand, etc.)

It should be faster than using fluid dynamic pressureplates.

It should be theoretically possible to have a beekeeper powered dwarfputer complex that outperforms previous models.
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Abraxis

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Re: Beekeeper logic: Applications
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2012, 03:54:28 pm »
Why use logic gates instead of pseudo code?  or... english?

Not that I'm complaining mind you, but i'm sure there are more programers here than engineers, and I'm sure there are more neither of the twos than programers.

Not to mention this is a program we're talking about, not a circuit.  It is interesting though I've never seen someone apply this stuff to programing matters.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 03:57:09 pm by Abraxis »
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wierd

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Re: Beekeeper logic: Applications
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2012, 05:11:39 pm »
Bloodbeard's dwarputer AI is built using raw logic gate implementations as well....

It is quite involved.
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Vehudur

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Re: Beekeeper logic: Applications
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2012, 05:37:09 pm »
Quote from: Abraxis on February 11, 2012, 03:54:28 pm
Why use logic gates instead of pseudo code?  or... english?

Not that I'm complaining mind you, but i'm sure there are more programers here than engineers, and I'm sure there are more neither of the twos than programers.

Not to mention this is a program we're talking about, not a circuit.  It is interesting though I've never seen someone apply this stuff to programing matters.

Inside the game it functions like a circuit.  It's an effective way to show it.
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Re: Beekeeper logic: Applications
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2012, 07:00:41 pm »
Quote from: Vehudur on February 11, 2012, 05:37:09 pm
Quote from: Abraxis on February 11, 2012, 03:54:28 pm
Why use logic gates instead of pseudo code?  or... english?

Not that I'm complaining mind you, but i'm sure there are more programers here than engineers, and I'm sure there are more neither of the twos than programers.

Not to mention this is a program we're talking about, not a circuit.  It is interesting though I've never seen someone apply this stuff to programing matters.

Inside the game it functions like a circuit.  It's an effective way to show it.

Actually, if you think of the glitched dwarf as a (highly persistent) electron it is a great analogy for direct current.
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Hotaru

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Re: Beekeeper logic: Applications
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2012, 07:40:17 pm »
I guess I could have been more clear about what I meant. Glad you could explain it, wierd.

Even though the beekeeper may make building semi-complex things like counters really simple, and the original idea I wanted to do with it was actually a DF version of mspaint, what I think may be the most interesting feature is that all the "technology" is available right at the start wherever bees and dwarves live. You can get your danger room and repeaters running without even digging more than 1 z-level below (well, assuming you brought stone for the mechanisms). It's also really, really, really simple to create anything once you get the basic idea.

I just wish I could test it properly, but yeah. This netbook is basically a fancy cell phone, DF isn't even bearable.
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It is said knowledge is like a foul-smelling herb. It must be cooked well and thoroughly with experience to make it palatable. A young scholar's knowledge is therefore not only worthless but disgusting. -- In Dwarf Fortress you have another paradigm. Gather as much of that smelly herb as you can and toss it at your enemy, fracturing his skull through the +capybara man leather cap+.

Di

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Re: Beekeeper logic: Applications
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2012, 03:50:32 am »
Promising idea but as shown by undump device you'd have to filter your candidates since not every dwarf manages to take a step before hatch opens. Or you could use bridges and two pressure plates but that'd  make system significantly slower.
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NinjaBoot

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Re: Beekeeper logic: Applications
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2012, 04:20:43 am »
Soon we'll be able to fully replicate the next version of DF on the computer systems built in-game by the various measures people use in-game! 

Can't wait! :)
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miauw62

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Re: Beekeeper logic: Applications
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2012, 04:22:18 am »
Quote from: wierd on February 11, 2012, 02:59:10 pm
I understand them...

The dwarf will path back to the "imaginary" hive, (really, a bug where DF does not update to the fack that a previously existing hive no longer exists when trying to get bees for another hive, causing a dwarf to path to a specific tile, and stand around like a construction worker)

On his way, he steps on a pressure plate that opens a hatch.  The hatch is exactly where the "imaginay" hive is. When he steps on it, there is a momentary delay before the hatch will open, in which the dwarf will make it to the hatch cover.  It then opens underneath him, plopping his dumpy drunk butt into the room below.  By giving him only a specific route back up to the imaginary hive (dwarves impacted by the bug are extremely persistent in trying to collect the no longer existing bee colony), you force him to step on a series of additional pressure plates, which drives the logic.

The drawings depict different pressureplate configurations to get different logical operations. (And, or, xor, nand, etc.)

It should be faster than using fluid dynamic pressureplates.

It should be theoretically possible to have a beekeeper powered dwarfputer complex that outperforms previous models.

Ah, that explains it alot better already, thank you sir.
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they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the raving confessions of a mass murdering cannibal from a recipe to bake a pie.
Quote from: MonkeyHead on May 25, 2014, 05:36:03 am
Knowing Belgium, everyone will vote for themselves out of mistrust for anyone else, and some kind of weird direct democracy coalition will need to be formed from 11 million or so individuals.

YetAnotherStupidDorf

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Re: Beekeeper logic: Applications
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2012, 04:27:51 am »
I consider it unrealiable system. What about off-chance that Toady actually fixes this bug?
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TailorTF

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Re: Beekeeper logic: Applications
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2012, 07:07:01 am »
Well,I'm not so good at this computational stuff,but wouldn't this beekeeper need to,I dunno,sleep?Eat?Drink?Your entire complex computer system could be hung up for a season because he'd put his drunk ass on break.
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Hotaru

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Re: Beekeeper logic: Applications
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2012, 07:24:02 am »
Yes.

Well, I don't know if they take breaks, they seem to be kind of obsessed with the hive, but they do pause to eat and drink if starving or dying of thirst.

Unless of course you want to be hardcore, in which case mod beekeepers (caste:beekeeper) to be indestructible obsidian golems without mouths, stomach sacs, livers or thoughts, eternally marching the beekeeping circuit searching for that one hive they were about to find before the hatch cover opened and they fell down again.
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It is said knowledge is like a foul-smelling herb. It must be cooked well and thoroughly with experience to make it palatable. A young scholar's knowledge is therefore not only worthless but disgusting. -- In Dwarf Fortress you have another paradigm. Gather as much of that smelly herb as you can and toss it at your enemy, fracturing his skull through the +capybara man leather cap+.

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Re: Beekeeper logic: Applications
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2012, 08:21:38 am »
Quote from: YetAnotherStupidDorf on February 12, 2012, 04:27:51 am
I consider it unrealiable system. What about off-chance that Toady actually fixes this bug?

We've got a while till it's done ;)
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