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Yes.

Yes, but too complicated

Undecided, I will post why

No, it is too complicated

No. (please post why)

[Meph]

Make reaction for leather boiling.In Tanner. Needs water and oil.
Make material: hardened/tough leather.
Make reaction for leather studding. In tanner. Needs tough leather and bone.
Make reaction for leather lamellars. In tanner. Needs studded leather, makes 2 lamellars.
Make reaction for lamellar armor. Needs 5 lamellars.
Make reaction for lamellar greaves. Needs 3 lamellars.
Make reaction for lamellar gloves. Needs 2 lamellars.
Make reaction for lamellar boots. Needs 2 lamellars.

This way I use leather, bone and oil. I add it to an existing building, which is quite empty. (really like the tanner here, fits perfectly) I get a good armor, which can be made without metal, or an smithing or mining. Irongrade is ok, what do you think ?

So much for leather.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

About wood: You mean laminating it, right ?

Otherwise I would just add trees with the different kind, add a custom reaction to the elves, so they have iron and steel grade (these two are really only for the treehuggers, they are way too weak with normal wooden gear)

I also have the "Dwarven Lamination Mod 1.4" but it has a indrustry to create more valuable wood, not better wood for weapons.

Oh and the reaction to burn wooden armor into coke is done as well.

[bombzero]

I meant compressing it, makes it harder and heavier.

[Gotdamnmiracle]

I don't see why we have to have one better than the other. in ther real world sometimes lumping one thing on another doesn't make it all that much stronger for the fact that it may weigh a ton more. I would like the idea of when for example making a breastplate you have a few choices on how to make it and each offers different properties like this:

                            FLUTED                                ANGLED                                  PLATED
         protects against cutting and blunt     protects against peircing and blunt   good against cutting and piercing
                       peircing destroys it            cutting hacks it up ath the joints      blunt splinters bones

maybe more options for different materiels.

also I think you shouldn't have bars of any material, it should be measured in grams (or more apporpriately urists). Like you could have a 16 urist lump of iron here and a 2 urist nugget over there and it would take a large hunk to make  a plate of it compared to only a cupful to make an iron bowl. Ores would be random in how much they produce.

 Alloys could be made from different metals and you could control the amounts in another screen like bronze in real life is not only made with copper and tin. This is a quote from the wiki on bronze:

Historical "bronzes" are highly variable in composition, as most metalworkers probably used whatever scrap was to hand; the metal of the 12th century English Gloucester Candlestick is bronze containing a mixture of copper, zinc, tin, lead, nickel, iron, antimony, arsenic with an unusually large amount of silver.

I would like to be able to experiment with different percentages and what yeilds the strongest bronze or best looking pewter or just a nasty mixture of pot metal. This way we could have mythical alloys made from ordinary things.

this is probably the wrong thread to dump all of this but \/ \/. If you like what you see, move it to where it belongs.

[Meph]

Here the reaction for the leather.

[REACTION:BOIL_LEATHER]
[NAME:boil leather to harden it]
[BUILDING:TANNER:CUSTOM_B]
[REAGENT:A:1:SKIN_TANNED:NONE:NONE:NONE][ANY_LEATHER_MATERIAL]
   [HAS_MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:IMPROVE_LEATHER]
 [REAGENT:B:150:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:NONE:NONE]
      [UNROTTEN]
      [HAS_MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:SOAP_MAT]
   [REAGENT:oil container:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE]
      [CONTAINS:B]
      [PRESERVE_REAGENT]
      [DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:SKIN_TANNED:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:LEATHER_EXOTIC]
[SKILL:TANNER]


[REACTION:STUD_LEATHER]
[NAME:stud hardened leather]
[BUILDING:TANNER:CUSTOM_S]
[REAGENT:A:1:SKIN_TANNED:NONE:NONE:NONE][ANY_LEATHER_MATERIAL]
   [HAS_MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:STUD_LEATHER]
[REAGENT:B:1:CORPSE:NONE:NONE:NONE][HAS_MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:BONEMEAL] <-- use the same one to just select bones in

another reaction
[PRODUCT:100:1:SKIN_TANNED:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:LEATHER_STUDDED]
[SKILL:TANNER]


[REACTION:STUD_LEATHER]
[NAME:make leather lamellars(2)]
[BUILDING:TANNER:CUSTOM_L]
[REAGENT:A:1:SKIN_TANNED:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:LEATHER_STUDDED][ANY_LEATHER_MATERIAL]
[PRODUCT:100:2:SKIN_TANNED:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:LEATHER_LAMELLAR]
[SKILL:TANNER]



[REACTION:LAMELLAR_ARMOR]
[NAME:assemble lamellar armor]
[BUILDING:TANNER:CUSTOM_A]
[REAGENT:A:5:SKIN_TANNED:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:LEATHER_LAMELLAR]
[PRODUCT:100:1:ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_LAMELLAR:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[SKILL:TANNER]



[ITEM_ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_LAMELLAR]
[NAME:lamellar armor:lamellar armors]
[ARMORLEVEL:3]
[UBSTEP:1]
[LBSTEP:1]
[LAYER:ARMOR]
[COVERAGE:100]
[LAYER_SIZE:20]
[LAYER_PERMIT:50]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:600]
LASTICITY_CHAIN_ALL]


@gotdamnmiracle: This seems a bit unrealistic, to add this to DF. I could do the fluted, angled and plated thoug...  I have steel upgrades already, that are similar, for Light/Heavy/Edged/Fireproof. None is really better or worse, but you have to decide for one.

The actual use of armor that is better against cutting, piercing and blunt is not very high. The invaders come with mixed weapons, and the military needs a long time to change their armor, and the uniform setting are horrible to do. No one could wait for an enemy, THEN decide which armor to use, re-equip, and attack.

[bombzero]

Meph is working on a mod that both simplifies and enhances DF. it removes redundancy and adds functionality.

your idea fits well with the current metal working system. but i doubt a nugget/lumps system would be feasible for either FPS or codewise. (remember coins and economy?)

the different types of bronzes is already in masterwork DF.

only real issue i see with your armor ideas is this. most sieges have a variety of attack types/weapons. and the military equipping is hell in DF right now, so situational changes wouldn't work.
and the point is to make bone/leather serviceable substitutes to metal in case you lack metal. and promoting working towards something, while still keeping the old stuff useful.


... dammit meph i spent forever writing/revising this post till it made sense...

[Gotdamnmiracle]

That's the point. You wouldn't do that. The same reason most people don't only pick one weapon they like and use only that weapon with every squad always. You could equip one squad in one armor and the second in another. I don't use uniforms, choosing specific objects works just fine for me. Although I don't really mind, I really just want it to acknowledge that there are many different armor types each with different properties.

Why is it unrealistic? Just curious I have no idea how to code so as far as I know the skies the limit. However I think that is fairly reasonable since each metal has certian properties and making an alloy or using the right percentage of one metal with another would yield  alloy X instead of metal mixture Y and Z. Also we already measure weight in game. Seems like it's all there to me if a little complex.

The point isn't for situational changes. The point is for specialized squads, like in the real world. There is no all around special armour, weapon, or gadget that makes anything impervious.

[Gotdamnmiracle]

It's already modded in? Neat. Sorry, all this doesn't belong in this thread. I got in a frenzy. I'll quit junking up this thread wiht things that don't belong.

[smakemupagus]

re: "stark," yeah I suppose it means strong or hardened, but i've only heard it to describe extreme levels of madness or the jaggedness of mountains. 

So... maybe it is perfect for DF

[Meph]

Leather works, next I do is wood. More details in the Masterwork Thread

Stark raving mad ? So DF players should recognize it

[Zyro]

I think there's !!fun!! nobody's considered:Elves get a Druid's workshop,which upgrades normal wood up to steeloak:Wooden arrows striking your dwarves with the force of steel, and the siege is cloaked.Then steeloak platemail, steeloak swords, etc.

[Meph]

This is exactly what I am doing this for, to quote myself:

Otherwise I would just add trees with the different kind, add a custom reaction to the elves, so they have iron and steel grade (these two are really only for the treehuggers, they are way too weak with normal wooden gear)

The reactions are already added btw, the have iron and steel now. In woodform. Also in metalform for trading.

I am just making a "timberyard" (working title) that allows dwarves to refine wood. not many ideas though.

Wooden logs +wax = 1 fairwood log (worth more)
Wooden logs = 2 scrapwood logs (worth less)

No idea about hardwood, ironbark and steeloak yet. How would a dwarf do something like that ? No enchanting and druids... no. But I do not want to use metals, since this should be an alternative. Any ideas ?

Wow, wikipedia says that Ironwood exists. :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olea_laurifolia

Also a seperation of Heartwood, Sapwood and bark could be done. The trees would (realisticly speaking) seperated into softwood and hardwood categories.

BarK:
Products used by people that are derived from bark include: spices and other flavorings, tanbark for tannin, resin, latex, medicines, poisons, various hallucinatory chemicals and cork. Bark has been used to make cloths, canoes, ropes and used as a surface for paintings and map making.[2] A number of plants are also grown for their attractive or interesting bark colorations and surface textures or their bark is used as landscape mulch.[3][4]


Mh... just collecting thoughts, nothing solid yet.

More random stuff:
The bark of some trees is edible; in Sweden and Finland, pine bread is made from rye to which the toasted and ground innermost layer of pine bark is added, the Sami people of far northern Europe used large sheets of Pinus sylvestris bark that were removed in the spring, prepared and stored for use as a staple food resource and the inner bark was eaten fresh, dried or roasted.[14]

Bark contains strong fibres known as bast, and there is a long tradition in northern Europe of using bark from coppiced young branches of the small-leaved lime (Tilia cordata) to produce cordage and rope, used for example in the rigging of Viking age longships.[15]

[Meph]

OK, tree system is set up, will make a test run now.

In theory it is this:
One building: Timberyard. Needs quite a bit to build and is quite large, should be outdoors. (is there an outdoor tag, like for furniture ?)

Trees produce rough wood. Underground trees produce fungiwood, deep underground trees procude netherwood, immune to fire.

Rough wood => remove bark => smooth wood
smooth wood => split heart and sapwood => 1 heartwood and 1 sapwood
heartwood => refined to fairwood, higher value
sapwood => refined to scrapwood, lower value, but 2 logs for 1.

ironbark => refine ironbark => 1 bar ironbark metal
steelaok => refine steeloak => 1 bar steeloak metal.

[admiralawesome]

It doesn't directly help, but as I was looking to adapt a couple of the Kobold Camp mods floating around for use with the Masterwork mod, I came to the vellum and scrolls and what not that are used at the Scriptorium.  The end result is to make items that can be used to train different skills at the mod's various training buildings.  Instead of having Kobolds craft books, I was thinking about giving reactions related to a skill a tiny chance to produce the training documents, which could then be used to train others, essentially.  Mash that together with another idea I had about upgradeable altars, and you could have jobs occasionally produce some object related to a technological breakthrough in the field, call it a Thesis on Metallurgy or something, and require x number of those to build the next tier of that sort of workshop.  I guess my goal with the idea is have new workshops that can replace the old ones, are more efficient at producing the same goods, and have new reactions that open up.

The limited number of vanilla DF workshops you can mess around with in the raws kind of limits the idea for now, though.

[Meph]

Interesting, I think no one ever did this. (narhiril has something similar though, with research. But it is not produced by normal labor)

Currently I have this as tech tree requierements:
2 buildings that require the simple version first, gem and metal.
Extra refining steps, for the new metals (grind poweder, smelt to bar) or bayonets.
Cave blob hunting for ammo.
Megabeast killing for legendary skill.
Magma needed for special buildings.
Archeologist that needs rare gems, a lot of mining needed.
Hell breaching required for special items.
Dwarf trading for constructs. (pets, dont breed, mines have one-time-use)
Elf trading for warbeasts. (pets, do breed, quite powerful)
human trading for weapons/armor (will scrap that, because you cant order a specific material)
Heavy resource investment: New, in the timberyard.


What I will do next:
Scrap the human trading for high tech gear. Instead give them blueprints you need to buy. With these you can build 3 buildings, weaponry, armory and javeline caster. You can now produce 2h-weapons, platearmor and javelines yourself, choosing your material and the skill of your smith. It was impossible to get masterwork steel javelines before, the humans are not that awesome. With this new system it would be possible.

The research idea, or the reaction that has a low chance of producing a needed item is also nice, and the only thing I can still think of. I will add it as well, either for a new features, but most likely to the guns. It makes sense that these high-tech weapons need some proper reseach first.

I have honestly no idea how to make any more (different) approaches for tech requierments. But with as many as I have, every player will be able to find something in his embark. I hope that this leads to a variety of tactics and fortresses.

[narhiril]

Interesting, I think no one ever did this. (narhiril has something similar though, with research. But it is not produced by normal labor)

Currently I have this as tech tree requierements:
2 buildings that require the simple version first, gem and metal.
Extra refining steps, for the new metals (grind poweder, smelt to bar) or bayonets.
Cave blob hunting for ammo.
Megabeast killing for legendary skill.
Magma needed for special buildings.
Archeologist that needs rare gems, a lot of mining needed.
Hell breaching required for special items.
Dwarf trading for constructs. (pets, dont breed, mines have one-time-use)
Elf trading for warbeasts. (pets, do breed, quite powerful)
human trading for weapons/armor (will scrap that, because you cant order a specific material)
Heavy resource investment: New, in the timberyard.


What I will do next:
Scrap the human trading for high tech gear. Instead give them blueprints you need to buy. With these you can build 3 buildings, weaponry, armory and javeline caster. You can now produce 2h-weapons, platearmor and javelines yourself, choosing your material and the skill of your smith. It was impossible to get masterwork steel javelines before, the humans are not that awesome. With this new system it would be possible.

The research idea, or the reaction that has a low chance of producing a needed item is also nice, and the only thing I can still think of. I will add it as well, either for a new features, but most likely to the guns. It makes sense that these high-tech weapons need some proper reseach first.

I have honestly no idea how to make any more (different) approaches for tech requierments. But with as many as I have, every player will be able to find something in his embark. I hope that this leads to a variety of tactics and fortresses.

Things I have used for "advancement"...

-"Research" reactions, producing a rare product needed for a new building.
-"Research" reactions, producing a common or guaranteed product needed for a new building, but requiring a large resource investment.
-Buildings requiring large numbers of resources.
-Obtaining a rare creature drop.
-Striking a rare mineral.
-Breaching HFS.
-Extra refine steps (I did this with raw mithril -> low-grade -> pure mithril)


The latest addition to LFR has been "weapon upgrades," which use research reactions to create blueprints for new, better weapons.  The advanced alchemy lab does the research, produces a "tome" if successful, and the "tome" is used to create a limitless number of blueprints, which are used with the original weapon and any upgrade materials to create a better version of that weapon.

Crossbow
Bayonet Crossbow
Mechanized Bayonet Crossbow
Spring-loaded Bayonet Crossbow

This is fully tested and works beautifully.  The only minor issue is that quality is not preserved, but if you're consuming items in custom reactions, you don't need to worry about masterwork items giving negative thoughts when "upgraded."

I would, of course, be more than happy to lend my experience (and some of my raws) to anyone looking to set up something similar.