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[Grimlocke]

I specifically adressed your post, not you suggestion. Read more carefully, its only a few lines. In that post you whined about the games explaintion only being online without reference to future version at all.

And about spitefulness and rudeness, that of my post pales in comparison to yours. Go have a drink or something.

[ZebioLizard2]

I don't drink. 

And it's not like I'm asking for it to be explicitly put in now, I'm just hoping for future versions to contain better contained information. Suggesting it would just be redundant as it has been suggested a few times over.

[NW_Kohaku]

Of course, even if someone is being rude and spiteful, calling someone rude and spiteful is... rude and spiteful.  (And yes, this implies I am being rude and spiteful for saying it, OH IRONY!)  But seriously, this argument's silly and not productive.

Generally while I understand your complexity issues, the fact of the matter is that your rather "Rude" when trying to push a point, a bit pushy overall when it comes to things, prone to attacking posters as well as other things.

If you push yourself onto people like that, you generally come off as thoughtless to everything but your own idea's, and it makes people want to be combative with you since your personally attacking them, and spitting on their idea's without really much care.

I want complexity within DF too, I want things harder and hard to do, but I want them "Explained" within the context as well. So that new people can learn and grow within the forum and community as well. And if enough people are accidentally pushed away, toady loses income, has to get a job, and updates for DF begin to dwindle.

I want complexity AND a good interface for handling it.  I have absolutely no problem helping people who honestly ask for help.  Heck, if I get the sort of changes I've been arguing for in the farming thread, I'll write the wiki articles and tutorials on it, myself.  When detailing how the system be built, I worked out how it should also be displayed to the player so that it wouldn't be confusing.

Other than that, do I have a temper?  Obviously.  But I'm still advancing the argument, and believe me, I've been taking into account people's complaints about farming, typically from both sides - people who want everything automated completely to the point where a player does essentially nothing but designate a farm plot and enable farming labors (and the dwarves pick the seeds to plant themselves) that Jiri has been arguing, to the Silverionmox hyperrealism at all costs, to people who argue that if anything is fully automated, that it's just a "movie of a fortress".  And frankly, you can look at the last twenty pages of the Improved Farming thread to see how far my argument's evolved over time. 

Argument, even hostile argument, can be constructive.

[Toady One]

Hostile arguments also derail threads and get them locked, and that's why they aren't acceptable here.  It's unfortunate to have to lock the "plea for civility" thread due to pointless arguing, but I think the main ideas have come across during the course of the discussion.  If there are any viable side discussions, they can be continued in another thread.