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[puke]

The original games got better as the series went on.  1 was a basic kill-the-BBEG-dungeon-crawl.  It had a couple puzzles and amusing quirks thrown in, but it was mostly a monster slaughtering slog fest.

2 was a pretty basic rod-of-the-seven-parts story, but it was done pretty well and this was probably only the 3rd major title featuring that plot and not the 300th.  My numbers are approximate.

3 was probably one of the best CRPGs of all time, in terms of pure epic.  You stay underdogs for most of the game, but the graduation to awesome is handled really well.

For the video:  The magic mouth, though cribbed from D&D, was a prominent puzzle type.  The Illusionist villain, I think there were a few of those.  The little pig guys certainly seem familiar, but maybe because they are a generic minion type.

The "light the roots on fire to see" I think is not a display of open-ended utilitarian sandboxey spell use, rather I suspect that it is an example of the adventure game style puzzles that are prevalent in the series. Oh, I cant see.. how do I make light to proceed? 

It's just a tech demo though, probably shouldn't read too much into it.  If it is actually fast paced and light hearted like that, I might be more interested than if it is just a dungeon crawler.

[Retropunch]

I am actually happy they outright told us.

A LOT of kickstarters do this... in secret.

I almost prefer that - this feels as though they're trying to make it some sort of 'reward'.

I do hope the positive feedback to the demo pushes it in the right direction though. I think after something like that it'd be pretty disappointing if it turns into a shuffling, grey corridors affair.

[Harry Baldman]

Watched the in-engine video, looks a lot like Legend of Grimrock 2 to me, which is definitely nice-looking (rather than the general horrid ugliness of Wasteland 2). Probably not going to back it, but still.

As for the fund-matching, inXile's got other funding each time in the past as far as I know - Wasteland 2 had its 600k or so thrown in by Fargo himself at the very least, and I don't really have facts on that, having not followed the Kickstarter, but I suspect Tides of Numenera was much the same way. Larian funded part of Original Sin by themselves plus investors, and there's probably more examples. If it's an actual game studio doing the kickstarting, you can surely bet some other investors and at least some measure of already available starting funds are involved.

Every time inXile say "RPG renaissance", though, I feel a little hollow inside. I wish they would stop doing that, honestly.

[lastofthelight]

I really don't understand some of the negativity here. I manage a business, (don't own it, just manage, don't get to keep any of the profits, so don't start calling me rich) and I can tell you, even for a small business of 12 people, a million dollars is NOT a lot of money. To hear anyone say otherwise is just complete and total ignorance. Payroll is EXPENSIVE. Healthcare for employees is EXPENSIVE. Buildings are expensive. Supplies add up. Money goes away fast. And it goes away faster if you want to treat employees the way -you- want to be treated. I'm amazed that WL2 got the success it did. It had generally /very positive/ reviews. Did I care for all parts of it? No. Am I happy its getting a rerelease? Sure - but even Original Sin is getting that. Almost all games have pretty big things cut from them, but most of these larger kickstarter games are seeing /very/ extended and generous long-term support. If you don't like it, don't back it. But I, as a repeated backer, have gotten what I wanted. And I think they've done a good job.

Honestly, games like Torment, WL2/etc - these games wouldn't exist without kickstarter. The fact of the matter is, its not enough to just be able to physically make a game, there has to be enough economic benefit to make it /worth your while/. Keep in mind how many of these mid-sized studios have gone under the past 5 years or so.  Especially on RPGs, the sales cycle for these things is very long term. It is absolutely not a smart economic investment to make the sort of game players want. Period. Its a bad use of the money. If it were a good investment, every AAA studio would be doing it. And when your looking at 3 years of development time per game, your talking a lot of money. Some of the comments in the thread above are ignorant, rude and self-centered. Like, for instance, the "using their own money in secret is preferred" one. Thats //absurd//. If the game doesn't get 1.25 million, it DOESN'T GET FUNDED. Its not a /reward/. What they are saying is, they can't do the game for 1.25 million, and they will use the profits from WL2, to fund half the game.

The graphics on the game that have been showed will cost a lot of money. And this won't be a huge game, at those quality graphics, not on 2-3 million. It will be probably a 3d-scanned version of Skara Brae and the surrounding countryside, with fantasy elements, and dungeons/etc - and a full sized game based around that, but not a lot of actual terrain. You have to keep in mind what your getting. Have they shown they can deliver? Sure. Now, if Torment turns out to suck, that might be something to rethink - but wasteland 2, even with the stuff that got cut, was still a deeper and better RPG then most released in the past few years or so. Same with Pillars of Eternity. I'll back their next project, as well.

These small kickstarters are keeping mid-sized studios open. The indies arn't JUST rising because of kickstarter. You will NEVER get these games without it. Sure, are some super small developers bitter and jealous? Sure. Is it fair that not everyone can get that money? Sure. But guess what - I contribute the most to smaller kickstarters when these big ones bring me back to the site. I probably fund 2-3 small ones for every big one, mostly because thats how I /find the small ones/.

I fully support them and fully admire the idea of 'lets not treat our employees like shit and lay them off' as a business model.

[Neonivek]

The negativity is mostly because of bad experience lastofthelight

It is easier to understand the negativity when you understand the forbearers like...

Planetary Annihilation, Starbound, and a few other games.

It is natural that people are feeling fatigue so I take this negativity with a grain of salt.

[Sergius]

I am actually happy they outright told us.

A LOT of kickstarters do this... in secret.

I almost prefer that - this feels as though they're trying to make it some sort of 'reward'.

If the Kickstarter succeeds, they'll reward you by making the game with extra money from their pockets. As opposed to... not getting any money from the KS and not making the game, or looking for the entire funding elsewhere, would then be a punishment?

We're not talking about a stretch goal. We're talking about binary getting funded vs. not.

[guessingo]

They should sell stock to raise money or ask for a crowd loan program where your money is repaid based on sales. Kickstarter is panhandling.

[Neonivek]

They should sell stock to raise money or ask for a crowd loan program where your money is repaid based on sales. Kickstarter is panhandling.

All things that take away creative input for a high risk game.

[Moghjubar]

Looks like its funded, stretch goals are now up.

As far as kickstarter and panhandling / etc, probably best for a pure kickstarter discussion.  It seems to have established itself as an accepted way to get funding for games at this point, sans any crash or policy / legislation changes.

[Neonivek]

Well the "Enhanced crafting system"

Let me just say that I'd almost pay for the game not to have it...

All this will be is the same all games will have it be. Which is you put a bunch of random butt hodgepodge items and hope it comes out with a combination that everyone else reads the wiki for.

I am waiting for the "Good" stretch goals personally. So far there is a "No duh" stretch goal and one I'd prefer if they ejected from the game.

[Mishrak]

When I see inXile launching a Kickstarter for 1.25m and offering to pony up another 1.25m of their money, what I see them saying is "This game is going to cost 2.5m to make properly.  If you guys fund half of it, we can make it."

I don't see them listing it as a stretch goal.  It tells me that they cannot make it properly without at least that much support.

This may not be true for every Kickstarter that does this, but Brian Fargo/inXile has continued to be the real deal thus far.

Also keep in mind that this money is literally nothing compared to some of the bigger budget games that companies like Bethesda are able to produce.

[Neonivek]

Kind of sad it isn't more popular.

This was going to be at least a LITTLE different then what we usually get in games now adays.

[Moghjubar]

Last 3 days, looks like its hit a few stretch goals and will probably hit the 1.5m mark for some more dungeons.  While they threw everything at it they had (free shit, same kinda share media points thingy that Iga did, etc) the old bards tale just doesn't have that kind of popularity.

I'm fairly certain they will get investor additional funds at least anyway.