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[Moghjubar]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/the-bards-tale-iv

Looks like inXile is gunning for a "true" revival of the bards tale series (guys that made Wasteland 2 and are making Tides of Numenera).  Supposedly going to be first person dungeon with item/object manipulation for puzzles, party choosing and class advancement.

Also apparently giving some freebies away for pledges in the first 24 hours (A witcher game or wasteland 2).  I did enjoy Wasteland 2 and thought it was a pretty good rendition of the series.

In game engine link (standard notice: no game ever looks like engine demos. Seriously.): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVB6dSckvJI

Random pics from engine preview:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[nenjin]

Red flags always tend to go up for me when a big million dollar Kickstarter isn't finished yet and they want to do another big million dollar Kickstarter.

Wasteland 2 started out good, mostly due to the voice acting, but I found it increasingly got more generic and vague as the game went on. The first area? Brilliant, detailed, rich, wonderful. The following areas? Each seemed to get less detailed, less interesting and more "RAR BANDITS KILL." All the subtlety in dialog options they hyped during the campaign and development? Non-existent in practice.

So I look askance at this for several reasons. The price doesn't seem...unreasonable for a dev studio that has had multiple million dollar runaway successes.

But Bard's Tale was not a complicated game. It was down right simple in terms of RPGs. So reading over the feature list, I already smell a lot of bloat. "Challenging puzzles and riddles"? I played probably 90% of Bard's Tale across three different versions (Apple, DOS and Nintendo) and that doesn't describe it at all. The biggest challenge in Bard's Tale was a samey-looking town where it has hard as fuck to find stuff and you're getting WTF ambushed every 2 minutes. The charm of Bard's Tale was that it was so basic, even simple things like finding your way around were a challenge, and combat could be merciless. People don't make games like that anymore, even the guys who made them in the first place.

And then there's this:

Co-funded by fans and inXile: if this game hits its $1.25 million goal, inXile will put in at least $1.25 million of its own money to double the initial budget!

How about you just, I dunno, put your own goddamn money in instead of dangling your bank roll in front of people like it's a fucking stretch goal. It's stuff like that this makes me not want to back rock star Kickstarters anymore. They don't need our money, they just want it.

This seems like someone drawing on nostalgia while maybe intending to redesign the thing they're pitching.

[Neonivek]

True

When was the last game where combat was hard and it was meant to be hard? The Darksouls/bloodsouls/demonsouls games?

[Retropunch]

Red Flags

Urgh I completely, completely agree. For me, it seems like you don't believe in your product enough to put your money to it. It seems ridiculous that these companies which are obviously doing very, very well are still using a platform that should be for indies/startups - It's like that brief time when big shot directors started trying to use it - it just seems exploitative when you've obviously got the money to pay for it yourself.
More than that, I really wish that kickstarter companies were restricted to delivering on one product before starting another. Especially when there are always delays and whatever.

I kinda don't know enough about it to be excited either. If they had an early gameplay video or something that'd be great, but just 'puzzles and dungeon crawling!!' is a bit vague, especially when they're obviously deviating significantly from the old Bards Tales

[Neonivek]

Honestly it sounds silly...

But the red flag for me was the graphics... and "Interactive objects"

I never EVER EVER look at old games and go "Wow, this game sure would be better if the graphics were better"

[Nick K]

I never finished either, but as someone who played the first two bards tale games a lot as a kid, I don't really see why anyone would want to remake them. Sure, I guess they were probably good by 1985 & 1986 standards, but I can't think of a single thing in them that would improve more modern games.
The main challenge was that dungeon corridors looked identical, so you'd just get lost unless you had a pencil and graph paper to map each square as you travelled. Combat could be tricky, but the solution was grindy levelling before moving onto each more difficult stage. The setting wasn't particularly memorable - pretty much just generic fantasy, although I don't think 1985 technology really allowed for enough content to make much of a unique rpg setting.

Well, it might end up being a good game, but if it does then it'll be in spite of any influences from the old games, rather than because of them.

[nenjin]

I never finished either, but as someone who played the first two bards tale games a lot as a kid, I don't really see why anyone would want to remake them. Sure, I guess they were probably good by 1985 & 1986 standards, but I can't think of a single thing in them that would improve more modern games.

I mean, I could see why someone would want to remake Bard's Tale. I STILL get mist-eyed with nostalgia when I see or hear it. It was back in an age when forming a party was literally "Pick a class, pick a name, go!", before developers were like "No, I have a STORY to tell, you're playing THIS GUY, supported by THESE characters, and NO, you CAN'T rename them." Your party was made up of your guys, your feels. Balanced party? What's that? Are you saying running 5 Sorcerers and 1 Wizard isn't viable? WELL FUCK YOU, IMMA DO IT ANYWAYS.

A freshened up Bard's Tale could actually be pretty good, if done right. I'm not getting that vibe from this though. What they're pitching sounds like Bard's Tale, reimagined. Which, if you're going to pull on my nostalgia heart strings, don't pull a bait and switch and hearken back to my nostalgia while planning to make the game something the original was not. Animated combat? Because that was such a BIG PART of Bard's Tale originally. I wonder how much of the budget is slated just for shit like that.

It could still be good. But I'm not going to back it, because I don't have faith in the idea as its presented...and honestly.....put your own fucking money into it if you think it's such a good idea.

[PrimusRibbus]

But Bard's Tale was not a complicated game. It was down right simple in terms of RPGs. So reading over the feature list, I already smell a lot of bloat. "Challenging puzzles and riddles"? I played probably 90% of Bard's Tale across three different versions (Apple, DOS and Nintendo) and that doesn't describe it at all. The biggest challenge in Bard's Tale was a samey-looking town where it has hard as fuck to find stuff and you're getting WTF ambushed every 2 minutes. The charm of Bard's Tale was that it was so basic, even simple things like finding your way around were a challenge, and combat could be merciless. People don't make games like that anymore, even the guys who made them in the first place.

Kinda echoing this sentiment. Bard's Tale was fun for the time, but I can't say I've ever sat down and said "You know what would be great? Another Bard's Tale." Not everything that's old is classic.

And WTF at

Co-funded by fans and inXile: if this game hits its $1.25 million goal, inXile will put in at least $1.25 million of its own money to double the initial budget!

That's not a feature. That's an admission that you don't believe in the product.

[puke]

Red flags always tend to go up for me when a big million dollar Kickstarter isn't finished yet and they want to do another big million dollar Kickstarter.

Normally I'd agree.  But what Fargo is doing here (and you have to give him the benefit of the doubt - he is the kingmaker of awsome game companies for the past 30 years) is that he is keeping 2 games under production at all times.

Maintaining a small production backlog.  Why?  because he does not want to lay off his talented team between projects.  He wants to put the writers to work while the coders are finishing the last game.  Then he will move the coders on to Bards Tale, and move the writers and designers on to his next project.

Its actually really awesome to see that kind of vision and loyalty in such a big shot.  I've got a lot of respect for Fargo.

Kinda echoing this sentiment. Bard's Tale was fun for the time, but I can't say I've ever sat down and said "You know what would be great? Another Bard's Tale." Not everything that's old is classic.

Well... I'd say it's certainly a classic.  But I sure as fuck dont want to see a faithful remake.  I might have fond memories, but I'm not a kid in the 80s with a pad of graph paper anymore, and I've got no desire to play a faithful remake of a dungeon puzzler.

But maybe I'm an edge case.  I dont really have an interest in playing a dungeon centric game at all anymore, but I do have to acknowledge that this sort of generic fantasy stuff is still popular.

On the OTHER hand, the slapstick comedy bards tale game was awesome.  I found the levels a bit boring and tedious, but it was worth it to get to the dialogue and story bits.

[Neonivek]

We don't want a dumbed down version of Bards Tale is I think what everyone is saying.

Since modern times and "Dumbed down" seem to go hand in hand

[nenjin]

He wants to put the writers to work while the coders are finishing the last game.  Then he will move the coders on to Bards Tale, and move the writers and designers on to his next project.

He has over a million dollars to throw into the project, or not. That does not seem like a guy who is desperate to keep his people working. Seems like he has more than enough cash to keep them employed, perhaps, I dunno, continuing to polish Tides and Wasteland 2? Just a thought.

[Virtz]

He wants to put the writers to work while the coders are finishing the last game.  Then he will move the coders on to Bards Tale, and move the writers and designers on to his next project.

He has over a million dollars to throw into the project, or not. That does not seem like a guy who is desperate to keep his people working. Seems like he has more than enough cash to keep them employed, perhaps, I dunno, continuing to polish Tides and Wasteland 2? Just a thought.

How are writers and concept artists gonna do that, tho?

[nenjin]

Writers can always have something to do. Concept artists, you don't need to start pulling in a million+ funding to keep them working.

I probably wouldn't care as much, were it not for the fact he's dangling his war chest out there like it's a stretch goal. That makes my blood boil.

[puke]

He has over a million dollars to throw into the project, or not. That does not seem like a guy who is desperate to keep his people working. Seems like he has more than enough cash to keep them employed, perhaps, I dunno, continuing to polish Tides and Wasteland 2? Just a thought.

A million dollars isnt that much money.  Top flight programmers are expensive, as is the general day to day overhead of running a business.

Employing people to do nothing is a bad move.  If he has the people, he is justified in starting a second project.  Are you really telling me that it would be more responsible to wait until Numenera is done before starting another project, if half his team is idle?  Just because he might be able to afford to keep them idle?

The "war chest" would probably go into the next game.  The stretch goal is to invest it into this game instead of the next.  With the talent the man has, the time he has put into the industry, and the sacrifices thorough the course of his career, I wouldnt begrudge him if the stretch goal was to blow the million on hookers and cocaine.

[nenjin]

I guess the difference is, I don't idolize the guy. And yeah, I do believe you should bring a game to release before you start scrounging for more money.

To put this into perspective, I work in a software company of 20 people, and $1 million is our yearly budget or more less. Maybe I don't live in California where everything costs 5x as much.