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[therahedwig]

I think you also shouldn't forget that in the new versions, your dwarfs now have huge families. So even if you keep your dwarfs from idling, they'll still have enough people that care(and tantrum) for them when they die.

Also, all that 'dwarven culture' crap is bullshit. Aside from 'short sturdy creature with a love of alcohol and industry' and the ethics raws, we have no idea what dwarven culture is supossed to be like in Toady's and Threetoe's eyes. Maybe they're a very melodramatic culture, and when poetry/music is in, they grieve their friends death by making these endless epics about the lives of their friends.

Actually I think this is part of the problem. Right now, dwarves can't actually do anything to mourn their friend and family other than tantruming. If the mythic personality rewrite comes up, I hope they'll be able to just seek out a friend and cry on their shoulder or something.

[Jake]

Actually I think this is part of the problem. Right now, dwarves can't actually do anything to mourn their friend and family other than tantruming. If the mythic personality rewrite comes up, I hope they'll be able to just seek out a friend and cry on their shoulder or something.

Theoretically they can do that already, though for some odd reason it's authority figures like the mayor that get shouted at and/or cried on. (Makes sense for industrial accidents or death in battle, I suppose.) The real problem, I feel, is that there's not much middle ground between merely being very unhappy and plunging right over the edge into violence.

[Mr. Palau]

I don't agree that tantrum spirals are realistic. Tantrums are, but their should be fewer fatalities from tantrums.

Well If you have your dwarves with a couople of blunt and/or sharp objects around then if they tanrumed it is likely they would kill someone, since all of those things are pretty dangerous in the hands of a dwarf. Also if your dwarves are living a generally horrible life I wouldn't put it past them to suddenly go beserk and kill everything around them, and if their friend just died I would expect them to do that all the more. If people live crappy lives they are mean, as evidenced by the fact that hunter-gatherers had a violent death rate at around 15%. Early agricultural societies had a slightly higher violent death rate.

Now as quality of live improves, people become less violent. This is also evidenced by decreased violent death rates in richer countries today (as a broad trend). Dwarves are generally considered to be hot-tempered, so it is not entireally unreasonable that a few deaths here and there would escalate to a large scale massacre as everyone rushes to get revenge on each other. As you can see in the think, this actually happened to one Amazonian tribe, they hold the world wide record for violent death rates, at 60%, because of a series of fueds.

The dwarven phenomenon of Tantrum spirals mimics fueds because it is just a revenge spiral.

EDIT: forgot the link, sorry. http://www.rogersandall.com/tribal-war/

[DavionFuxa]

I think this could be a good suggestion to implement, though perhaps personality traits can come into play to help determine if a Dwarf is happy or unhappy about friends and family dying heroicly. For example, let's say the dwarf is 'DUTIFULNESS - 61 or Higher'. You may not like that your friend died but you understand that as a soldier it was his duty to fight and die.

[UHaulDwarf]

You're suggesting that naturally numb people who are further numbing themselves with drink are more likely to cry and rage than just suck it up and deal with it?

Dwarves aren't naturally numb, they're naturally unstable (if only due to copious alcohol intake). This isn't helped by their cultural tendancies towards a dislike of discussing feelings, leading to said feelings exploding out of them at inoppurtune times, and towards violence.

Dwarfs don't dislike the discussion, in fact I would say that the opposite is true. I find that dwarfs are more then willing to talk about almost anything.
However they do not like talking when there is work to be done, and there is almost always work to be done, so one might see it as the same as just not wanting to talk.

[King Mir]

I don't agree that tantrum spirals are realistic. Tantrums are, but their should be fewer fatalities from tantrums.

Well If you have your dwarves with a couople of blunt and/or sharp objects around then if they tanrumed it is likely they would kill someone, since all of those things are pretty dangerous in the hands of a dwarf. Also if your dwarves are living a generally horrible life I wouldn't put it past them to suddenly go beserk and kill everything around them, and if their friend just died I would expect them to do that all the more. If people live crappy lives they are mean, as evidenced by the fact that hunter-gatherers had a violent death rate at around 15%. Early agricultural societies had a slightly higher violent death rate.

Now as quality of live improves, people become less violent. This is also evidenced by decreased violent death rates in richer countries today (as a broad trend). Dwarves are generally considered to be hot-tempered, so it is not entireally unreasonable that a few deaths here and there would escalate to a large scale massacre as everyone rushes to get revenge on each other. As you can see in the think, this actually happened to one Amazonian tribe, they hold the world wide record for violent death rates, at 60%, because of a series of fueds.

The dwarven phenomenon of Tantrum spirals mimics fueds because it is just a revenge spiral.

EDIT: forgot the link, sorry. http://www.rogersandall.com/tribal-war/

Except Tamtrum spirals arn't fueds. They are untargeted rage. A dwarf is as likely to kill a family member as someone who could be blamed for the deaths.

[Mr. Palau]

Except Tamtrum spirals arn't fueds. They are untargeted rage. A dwarf is as likely to kill a family member as someone who could be blamed for the deaths.

Never said they were exactly the same. If you have a group of alcholics who live genuinely terrible lives, and are all very interconnected with many friends inside the group, and you kill a couple of them, I would expect a violent outburst. It would likely be from the least stable and most violent one, but if he kills another then he tips the increasingly stable ones into violence.