Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[penguinofhonor]

One of my biggest gripes with MRA stuff is that the problems they talk about almost always disproportionately affect black men. Yet feminism is always the cause of this, never racism.

[Graknorke]

Well, women get help if they are the "victim", no matter how stupid the problem. Men are told to "man up" and are laughed at or shamed if they cry or ask for help, no matter how severe the problem.

"Let's keep patriarchy because all of my biggest complaints about feminism come from the fact that it still exists."

That's literally what you are saying.

I do not understand how not helping men is a sign of a patriarchy?
That's pretty much the opposite way round. People in power get help. People not in power get left to deal with their own problems.

[misko27]

Frankly, my job is done. My aim was to stop the brewing flame-war on the other thread, and bring law and order. I frankly really don't give a shit, as long as you all keep it civil.
 
I will admit we do tend to dabble in groupthink from time to time. I have kept a number of my views under-wraps cause it conflicts with the vast majority.

[da_nang]

Question: What do you think of quotas for women in corporations?

Only good in my books if it doesn't mess up the meritocracy. Gender and work should be kept far away from each other unless the job description unavoidably requires it.

[Willfor]

I do not understand how not helping men is a sign of a patriarchy?
That's pretty much the opposite way round. People in power get help. People not in power get left to deal with their own problems.

Patriarchy is the conditioning of men to be "men" and women to be "women". Under this system, men are to be the providers, the alphas, the always right. This places expectations on both men and women. Society enforces it, and yet when the blame happens, it conveniently never falls on this belief system -- the one that is actually causing the problem.

[Helgoland]

Question: What do you think of quotas for women in corporations?

Same thing I think of all affirmative action: A necessary evil, at best.

Affirmative action, that was the expression I was looking for. Thanks, man! I'll buy you a beer if we ever meet

Only good in my books if it doesn't mess up the meritocracy. Gender and work should be kept far away from each other unless the job description unavoidably requires it.

That's my own main concern. A possible workaround would be a rule saying if the best applicants for an opening are a man and an equally qualified woman, you have to take the woman until X percentage has been reached.

[Loud Whispers]

Question: What do you think of quotas for women in corporations?

It's not the way to actually get forwards. By forcing employers to employ X amount of women, it's going to automatically make them think of it as something that has to be done, despite not wanting to.
Not that I've ever heard of it. But it seems like that's the sort of thing it's doing (forcing employers to have a certain percentage of women working for them).

For now, I support it. Much like Kaiyjuu and yourself have said, it's counter productive; but without you'd find most companies hiring men over women due to deliberate biological differences, maternal leave being an obvious example.
There's also an issue in almost entirely female dominated careers like school teaching. But could you enact m:f ratio quotas in those without being called misogynistic?
Put that way, I'm not so sure about the quotas...

[Graknorke]

I do not understand how not helping men is a sign of a patriarchy?
That's pretty much the opposite way round. People in power get help. People not in power get left to deal with their own problems.

Patriarchy is the conditioning of men to be "men" and women to be "women". Under this system, men are to be the providers, the alphas, the always right. This places expectations on both men and women. Society enforces it, and yet when the blame happens, it conveniently never falls on this belief system -- the one that is actually causing the problem.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Definition of patriarchy
noun (plural patriarchies)
[mass noun]

    a system of society or government in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descent is reckoned through the male line
    a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it
    [count noun] a society or community organized on patriarchal lines

No, patriarchy is definitely tied to who holds power, not what is expected as gender roles.

[Hiiri]

Question: What do you think of quotas for women in corporations?

I suppose a good way to push equality and see if it sticks. As a permanent solution, no. I know plenty of women don't want to be the quota-woman either.

[penguinofhonor]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Definition of patriarchy
noun (plural patriarchies)
[mass noun]

    a system of society or government in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descent is reckoned through the male line
    a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it
    [count noun] a society or community organized on patriarchal lines

No, patriarchy is definitely tied to who holds power, not what is expected as gender roles.

Did you just make a dictionary argument?

[Toady One]

I banned TheFryingWeegee -- the posts here + the china thread (which I deleted) = trolling, or something close enough to it.  The thread has become a report magnet, and I'm not sure how to clean out the whole first part, so I'm going to lock it.  Feel free to remake it if you can keep it reasonable.