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[kaijyuu]

The raging misogynist did bring up one potentially valid point: Conscription in the USA.

We haven't had a draft since that one civil rights amendment which name escapes me, but if we have another one, I'm pretty sure they're legally obligated to draft women as well as men. Otherwise it's unconstitutional at this point.

[Virex]

Oh god, considering the current culture in the US military, I can see that become a humanitarian disaster in and of itself...

[TheFryingWeegee]

This is why we can't have threads like this. No matter how obvious it is that Weegee there is trolling, there are far too many people on this forum who either agree with him, or don't disagree enough to call him out on it. Feminism is more relevant than ever because shit like this still exists.

So, I use evidence and logic to create an opinion and percieved fact, and that is trolling? People agreeing with me does not make me a troll, it just makes it obvious that many others have come to the same logical conclusion.

[/quote]
Feminism is more relevant than ever because shit like this still exists.
[/quote]

Wait, so you are saying, that feminism is relevant, because it brainwashes people to not have their own opinions? So anything other than the feminist opinion is shit? So we have no freedom of speech, because it is "shit" and feminism will stop us from thinking or at least spreading our idea?

Feminist argument pattern:
 
1: cookie cutter arguments,
2: strawman arguments
3: Misogyny, shaming tactics etc
4: NAWALT (Not all women are like that)
5: Sarcasm, ignoring arguments,
6: Saying that I am argument mongering
7: Refusal to reply

[Graknorke]

New title has a typo.
It's "gendrer".

[Mlamlah]

You *could* split modern feminism into two categories: there is the less aptly named version which has a tendancy to campaign for sexual (of or relating to sex, similiar to gender) rightsm *including* for those that fall outside the literal definition of sexism (example:transexuals). I've encountered this side of feminism a lot, and is what i refer to when i bring up the word "Feminism", it may not be aptly named, but it's merely the evolution of a movment.

On the other side there are the infamous Feminazis. I've *heard* of these people a lot, in some cases it's the what a person assumes all feminists are. Now, while i've heard of and seen the Feminists i've referred to earlier quite a bit i've never actually physically encountered or heard of a feminazi campaign that actually... did anything. The only instance i've ever encounterd Feminazis are as trolls on the internet, who could easily have just been... y'know, trolling. So please, for the love of god, if you're going to refer to feminazi's then please cite who these mythical creatures are and where their all powerful movement comes from.

[misko27]

Hi everyone. It seems a bigot has found his way to our forums, so  while we wait for him to be carted back to his asylum, please do not respond. Soallright? If everyone follows this I will hand out cookies.

[TheFryingWeegee]

NO.
 
This thread includes Gender Equality for men too.
 
Hmm, maybe I should Change title...

ALSO: FRYING WEEGEE, YOU ARE ALREADY ON MY RADAR. I SEE COMENTS BLAMING TEH VICTIM. NOT ACCEPTABLE. YOU ARE ESCAPED LUNATIC, SO I HAVE LESS TOLERANCE FOR YOU.

Brah, men are the victim.

Everyone can be a victim, that's not up for debate. The debate is about how society handles victimization, as well as if and how our culture makes certain groups more likely to become victims. Take for example cat-calling, which is described by a lot of people as extremely unpleasant. It's socially acceptable to cat-call a woman (according to society)*, but if a man cat-calls another man he's called gay and a woman cat-calling a man is called a whore. As such, women are at a far-greater risk of becoming victims of cat-calling.
The question then becomes, who is likely to become a victim of what and why? This is not something that can be determined by tossing anecdotes around, especially not if it's a kind of victimization you don't have any experience with.


* I'm using man and woman here to mean 'as seen by society'. A woman who was assigned the male gender at birth and passes as a man in daily life would fall under the male category.

Well, women get help if they are the "victim", no matter how stupid the problem. Men are told to "man up" and are laughed at or shamed if they cry or ask for help, no matter how severe the problem.

[Mlamlah]

How the... ugh, my computer totally fucked that up.

[kaijyuu]

Oh god, considering the current culture in the US military, I can see that become a humanitarian disaster in and of itself...

With a hell of a lot more women in the military, it'd probably help in solving those issues, but yeah; initially at least it'd be very bad.

One more reason to never, ever institute another draft.

[penguinofhonor]

Even suffragetes have been anti male from the start. Bashing male civilians and police, shaming men into joining the military during WW1, and causing horrific riots.

I respect this view even if I disagree with it. So many people go on about how "modern feminism" has ruined feminism. No, you just don't know anything about pre-modern feminism except the sugar-coated Susan B. Anthony stuff you were taught in elementary school.

Feminism hasn't suddenly been twisted around recently; it's had the same core philosophy its entire life. Whether you agree with it or not, you shouldn't misrepresent first wave stuff with some fake nostalgia.

[Graknorke]

On the other side there are the infamous Feminazis. I've *heard* of these people a lot, in some cases it's the what a person assumes all feminists are. Now, while i've heard of and seen the Feminists i've referred to earlier quite a bit i've never actually physically encountered or heard of a feminazi campaign that actually... did anything. The only instance i've ever encounterd Feminazis are as trolls on the internet, who could easily have just been... y'know, trolling. So please, for the love of god, if you're going to refer to feminazi's then please cite who these mythical creatures are and where their all powerful movement comes from.

There was the group who got together to vandalise one of Jimmy Saville's old residences (which had by then been sold on), after the reports of his sexual abuse stuff came out.
That's pretty terrible; they wrecked someone's house because of someone who lived there before.

[TheFryingWeegee]

On the other side there are the infamous Feminazis. I've *heard* of these people a lot, in some cases it's the what a person assumes all feminists are. Now, while i've heard of and seen the Feminists i've referred to earlier quite a bit i've never actually physically encountered or heard of a feminazi campaign that actually... did anything. The only instance i've ever encounterd Feminazis are as trolls on the internet, who could easily have just been... y'know, trolling. So please, for the love of god, if you're going to refer to feminazi's then please cite who these mythical creatures are and where their all powerful movement comes from.

You obviously don't watch TV, or have ever been to a school or university.

[misko27]

Even suffragetes have been anti male from the start. Bashing male civilians and police, shaming men into joining the military during WW1, and causing horrific riots.

I respect this view even if I disagree with it. So many people go on about how "modern feminism" has ruined feminism. No, you just don't know anything about pre-modern feminism except the sugar-coated Susan B. Anthony stuff you were taught in elementary school.

Feminism hasn't suddenly been twisted around recently; it's had the same core philosophy its entire life. Whether you agree with it or not, you shouldn't misrepresent first wave stuff with some fake nostalgia.

No cookie for penguin.

[Virex]

On the other side there are the infamous Feminazis. I've *heard* of these people a lot, in some cases it's the what a person assumes all feminists are. Now, while i've heard of and seen the Feminists i've referred to earlier quite a bit i've never actually physically encountered or heard of a feminazi campaign that actually... did anything. The only instance i've ever encounterd Feminazis are as trolls on the internet, who could easily have just been... y'know, trolling. So please, for the love of god, if you're going to refer to feminazi's then please cite who these mythical creatures are and where their all powerful movement comes from.

I think it has a lot to do with media representation of feminists. Femnazi's are easy to take pot-shots at because a.) Nobody likes them, not even the rest of the feminist movements (although they'll loudly scoff at the producers for making people think all feminists are like that), b.) Most of the audience is not a feminist in the first place and c.) The ones handing out the cash tend to be of the rather conservative variety.


 

 The only instance i've ever encounterd Feminazis are as trolls on the internet, who could easily have just been... y'know, trolling.

Guilty as charged.

Oh god, considering the current culture in the US military, I can see that become a humanitarian disaster in and of itself...

With a hell of a lot more women in the military, it'd probably help in solving those issues, but yeah; initially at least it'd be very bad.

One more reason to never, ever institute another draft.

Yeah, I hope the military gets serious with reforms before there's a real need for a draft.

[Loud Whispers]

My only real complaint toward "feminism of today" is the name. I'd prefer something like "equalism" or something, so it's clear we're after gender equality. Double standards negatively affect women in 99.9% of cases anyway, and it will more clearly highly the problem with men's rights activists (removing one of their pathetic excuses that feminism only supports women, and give the few valid men's rights issues a more solid place).

Egalitarianism seems good enough.

Double Standards against men:
Conscription, Affirmative Action, title 9, VAWA, Conscription, War deaths, disproportionate male suicide rate, disproportionate male homelessness rate, female centric education, female centric society, biased family courts, male custody issues, abortion, alimony
Affirmative Action, Abortions, Family Courts, alimony, biased family courts, male custody issues, Title 9, VAWA, and to some extent disproportionate male homelessness rate are all caused by feminism.

Strong claim, could you provide evidence please? Some studies maybe?

I doubt that I would be unable to disprove any female double standards that you present me with.

I don't have a lot of time to spare right now, but I'll hold you to that later!

ALSO: FRYING WEEGEE, YOU ARE ALREADY ON MY RADAR. I SEE COMENTS BLAMING TEH VICTIM. NOT ACCEPTABLE. YOU ARE ESCAPED LUNATIC, SO I HAVE LESS TOLERANCE FOR YOU.

You have intersting opinions Weegee. I'm sure the Minecraft forums will be fascinated to hear them. HOWEVER, here, you may feel the Wrath of the Toad instead.

Oh blow off Misko, remember Captain Oscar-sock puppet 9412 criticisms that Bay12 was a hug box inherently harsh towards conflicting opinions? Give Weegee a chance to justify their claim.

Women have always had life better than men. I really don't get why feminism started in the first place.

This especially needs much looking at. I would say neither had it better.

Queen Elizabeth the first was, obviously, a woman. Strange, how could this happen in the patriarchy?

She couldn't marry either, or else all of her power would have poofed. Conversely she also used her womanly charms to manipulate rich, rich men.
Again, not egalitarian, but we're not living in Victorian Great Britain either.


Btw, interesting read of our last gender issues discussion on Bay12. The main issue was between the issues of putting circumcision on the level of FGM.