Bay 12 Games Forum

Quote from: Grax on May 03, 2024, 10:27:42 am

I see no one said "with Dwarf Therapist" ;-))

Does it work for .50?

Yep. Perfectly.

Is it normal or a bug?
(i do understand 47's obsolete version, but nevertheless)

Value is 1'172'448.

And a question about 47.05.

Tried every combination of init:
[WINDOWEDX:96]   1920
[WINDOWEDY:49]    990
[FONT:rose20.png]

You may disable window resizing if you wish.
[RESIZABLE:YES] NO

Full screen info.  The 0s below mean that the game will choose a resolution for you, but you can set it yourself as well.

[FULLSCREENX:0] 1920
[FULLSCREENY:0] 1080
[FULLFONT:zara16.png]

If this is set to NO, tiles will be stretched to fit the screen if there is a resolution mismatch.
If this is set to YES, the tiles will not be stretched, but rather the game view will be centralized, surrounded by black space.  Tiles that are too large will always be compressed rather than running off the screen.

[BLACK_SPACE:YES] NO

[GRAPHICS:YES] NO
[GRAPHICS_WINDOWEDX:1920] 96
[GRAPHICS_WINDOWEDY:990] 49
[GRAPHICS_FONT:rose20.png]
[GRAPHICS_FULLSCREENX:1920] 96
[GRAPHICS_FULLSCREENY:1080] 54
[GRAPHICS_FULLFONT:zara16.png]
[GRAPHICS_BLACK_SPACE:YES] NO

But it draws fonts scaled to 80xNN grid.
Like this zoomed.
Windowed not zoomed to screen:


Window zoomed to fit screen:


Older 45.xx on 2560x1440 display just draw a game screen with a 128x70 grid without stretching font.

Quote from: Grax on April 21, 2024, 08:39:03 am

My old HP notebook config, 2016:
HP EliteBook 840 G3
BIOS   N75 Ver. 01.44 10/31/2019
OS BUILD   Win10 19041.1.amd64fre.vb_release.191206-1406
PLATFORM ROLE   Mobile
8Gb, 400Mb integrated video.

Now some science. DF 50.12 almost vanilla raws and init.

I have my doubts about the testing methodology. In order for it to be fair, both versions would need to be tested with very similar circumstances - embark size, world size and history apparently plays a factor. Fort size is also important, but it'd probably be easier to just test the framerates before even building a world. The resolution of both versions should also be kept the same. Also, it's obvious that the graphical version would be more hardware demanding by virtue of being graphical.

JFYI: every measure i made with the same saved game, starting at the same moment, exiting without further saving by DFHck "die" command.

About the old vs. new UI: What this argument often comes down to is that longbeards are used to the old UI after having played it for over a decade. Keep in mind that to the average outsider, the old UI is horrifying.

It's not just controls. What finally maddened me is stupid kind of sorting things in stocks.
I can't even imagine more inconvenient thing.

Of course, it's no problem to me if you prefer the old or new UI, but just ask yourself if the reason you prefer the old one is because you have an argument for why it's better, or if you're just used to it. (Or if some things are missing, which, to be fair, a lot of things are missing, so we should still give them time to catch up. Had to wait for things like adventure mode to be re-released, after all.)

Old keyboard UI is much faster. You just press a key and voila, you got what you want.
New UI eat more time to take the mouse, point and click the thing (magnifying glass for example) to get the result.

Quote from: Grax on April 20, 2024, 08:11:59 am

And. Graphic mode eats 35-40% CPU even on pause. In background behind other windows.

Oh right, glad you bring this up, I thought my computer was just wrong. Does this performance loss is certified to be from the UI ?

My old HP notebook config, 2016:
HP EliteBook 840 G3
BIOS   N75 Ver. 01.44 10/31/2019
OS BUILD   Win10 19041.1.amd64fre.vb_release.191206-1406
PLATFORM ROLE   Mobile
8Gb, 400Mb integrated video.

Now some science. DF 50.12 almost vanilla raws and init.

[FPS_CAP:100]
[G_FPS_CAP:100]

[TEMPERATURE:YES]
[WEATHER:YES]
[CAVEINS:YES]

1) ASCII with DFHack (exe size 21.490.176 bytes) ~12%CPU, 60%GPU - in main menu.
2) ASCII with DFHack (exe size 21.490.176 bytes) ~30%CPU, 85%GPU - in game on pause.
3) ASCII with DFHack (exe size 21.490.176 bytes) ~38-40%CPU, 85%GPU - in running game.

4) Graphic with ASCII interface with DFHack (exe size 21.516.288 bytes) ~10-15%CPU, 50-60%GPU - in main menu.
5) Graphic with ASCII interface with DFHack (exe size 21.516.288 bytes) ~35%CPU, 70-80%GPU - in game on pause.
6) Graphic with ASCII interface with DFHack (exe size 21.516.288 bytes) ~43%CPU, 67%GPU - in running game.

7) Graphic with GRAPHIC interface with DFHack (exe size 21.516.288 bytes) ~15%CPU, 65%GPU - in main menu.
Graphic with GRAPHIC interface with DFHack (exe size 21.516.288 bytes) ~38%CPU, 60-70%GPU - in game on pause.
9) Graphic with GRAPHIC interface with DFHack (exe size 21.516.288 bytes) ~45-49%CPU, 65-70%GPU - in running game.

Won't test without DFHack, `cause i'm lazy and won't play without it. ;-)

To be honest when I read Grax's messages I just felt so bad about all the work that was done for such updates of the game, it's flat out degrading.

Quote from: DogsRNice on April 17, 2024, 11:08:06 am

After a game reaches a certain point of complexity is it even possible to create a ui the majority of players would consider good?

Plus looking at the stats of the game clearly the new UI appealed to way more players, so yeah, is it really possible to please everyone ? Then if it's about pleasing people, the devs might aswell please the majority.

I'm here, just busy.

Have you already tried to make a shower?

Or bridge traps?

Differently colored levers?

A dozen of something of specific material with one designation without manager?

The only thing i've found usable and comfortable so far is stockpiles that can be not just rectangle.

Just downloaded and started 50.12 (after a 2 or 3 year pause, since 43.x or 45.x, don't remember)

Aaaand WTF?!

New UI is almost unplayable.
No shortcuts visible.
Where's side panel?

Why anything have to be pressed or viewed by mouse?

Won't play new versions of DF anymore.