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[Ibid Straydrink]

Well, I finally made my robot. Turned him on and was one-shotted before I could even move away. When I respawned, it was nowhere to be found. : /

[Max White]

Well, I finally made my robot. Turned him on and was one-shotted before I could even move away. When I respawned, it was nowhere to be found. : /

I'm sorry, but you can never truely be my robo-father.
*BAM insta-gib*
I must go find my one true place now. Good bye, bloodied corpse. You were my greatest friend.

[Neyvn]

UGH... Trying to set up a server for a group of friends and myself but I keep having troubles...
Been following the most common guide but there is a slight problem. I can connect to my server, but they keep getting Port Connection Errors...
I have forwarded the port as well so I have no idea what I am doing wrong...

[Seriyu]

Well, I finally made my robot. Turned him on and was one-shotted before I could even move away. When I respawned, it was nowhere to be found. : /

Thank you for making me finally realize those robot parts are for the boss, and not for a robot buddy that will bound about and generally be my friend.

[Flying Dice]

I really think it's fine with the refinery. Copper bars convert into 10 pixels a pop, ore into 5 pixels a pop so if you just go for all the ore you find it should be fine. I've got 550 or so copper ore just from mining around. It rewards you for mining, and hanging out on a planet to mine.

The 3D should definitely be able to print more stuff, and blocks certainly shouldn't be more then a few pixels a pop.

I'd really not see the 3D printer become "seen a block? You get it forever for what is basically no cost!", and make pixels almost useless in the process. It seems like a creative mode of sorts would be better for that sort've thing.

If they do add more uses for pixels I could see the costs going up, but I think they're fine for now.

Have you ever built any sort of large-scale construct in a game like this? It can take easily 2000+ blocks just for a square-shaped blob that barely fills a quarter of the screen, never mind something the size of the randomly generated bases/towns/whatever. The 3D printer needs to be able to print blocks because it would be absolutely idiotic for it not to, and they need to be cheap (1p per, in my view), because otherwise building anything interesting is prohibitively expensive. That same ~2000 block storage bunker? A minimum of 2000p with my preferred rate. Even with that cost a large building with lots of ornamentation could easily run 50k+ pixels.

If it isn't done right in-game, people are just going to use inventory editors like they did with Terraria. Because seriously, if I want to build my own human-style compound, I'm not fucking mining out an entire extant one for the materials and props, and I'm not grinding hundreds of thousands of pixels to print them.

[alway]

I really think it's fine with the refinery. Copper bars convert into 10 pixels a pop, ore into 5 pixels a pop so if you just go for all the ore you find it should be fine. I've got 550 or so copper ore just from mining around. It rewards you for mining, and hanging out on a planet to mine.

This. The later in the game you get, the more late-game ores you get; and they are worth progressively more. Platinum is 50 an ore, and in the level 40 planets is really common. Additionally, mobs drop more as level increases. Methinks you are all just trying to scan everything too early in the game.

[sambojin]

From the sounds of things, it's really not too grindy. Level 1->40 content in a few days? Fair enough, that's the current cap, that's about to be re-worked, but damn...... That's grindy? Like WoW. WoW.

I was honestly hoping the first basic 40% of the game might take me more than a week. Maybe I'm not a "gamer", but I'm definitely not Korean. Hehehe, the "grind" of Starbound's beta, a few days. It's lol'able.

[Elephant Parade]

From the sounds of things, it's really not too grindy. Level 1->40 content in a few days? Fair enough, that's the current cap, that's about to be re-worked, but damn...... That's grindy? Like WoW. WoW.

I was honestly hoping the first basic 40% of the game might take me more than a week. Maybe I'm not a "gamer", but I'm definitely not Korean. Hehehe, the "grind" of Starbound's beta, a few days. It's lol'able.

It's not how long it takes to grind. It's how annoying the grind is.

[Seriyu]

Have you ever built any sort of large-scale construct in a game like this? It can take easily 2000+ blocks just for a square-shaped blob that barely fills a quarter of the screen, never mind something the size of the randomly generated bases/towns/whatever. The 3D printer needs to be able to print blocks because it would be absolutely idiotic for it not to, and they need to be cheap (1p per, in my view), because otherwise building anything interesting is prohibitively expensive. That same ~2000 block storage bunker? A minimum of 2000p with my preferred rate. Even with that cost a large building with lots of ornamentation could easily run 50k+ pixels.

If it isn't done right in-game, people are just going to use inventory editors like they did with Terraria. Because seriously, if I want to build my own human-style compound, I'm not fucking mining out an entire extant one for the materials and props, and I'm not grinding hundreds of thousands of pixels to print them.

I said it was fine for it to print blocks! Likewise I can't keep you from using inventory editors. I really don't mind that. I still think the refinery takes care of most of this on it's own. 10 pixels a bar, for copper. I dunno how fast it goes up, but if it even doubles, by the end of the third tier you're getting 90 pixels per bar/pair of ore. A large pocket, but by no means uncommon near the bottom of the map, of 20 ore, will give 1800 pixels.

The refinery both makes pixels at a pretty ridiculous rate, and encourages people to do something beyond running across the surface of the planet looking for treasure chests, beaming up, then going off to another planet to do it again. (I'd also like to say if I sounded cranky in my previous post, I really didn't mean to come off as such! I'm just presenting my point. Not trying to confront anyone.)

[Max White]

That's grindy? Like WoW. WoW.

What you did. It is there. And I see it.

Anyway, three days of doing the exact same actions is actually pretty damn grindy, but something something beta, something more content soon, something balance issues.

Actually on the topic of balance issues, I think letting us go anywhere in a sector is a pretty poor idea. Basically being able to look up good locations to get the best gear quickly without any of the exploration is an instant "I win button". Yes, we all know that all the reward without the effort makes for a boring game, but few people actually have the self discipline to not look up where to get a mech walker for themselves, especially in a multiplayer game when all your friends have one.

[Girlinhat]

The problem is that it's literal grind.  You just wander around looking for animals.  It's not exploring and it's not really -fun- and if you're going to try to argue that "games aren't always supposed to be fun" then I think we're just on different wavelengths.

It's not even "fight these monsters to get enough pixels" it's "hope enough spawned, and if not, try again."  I've always felt there was something deeply wrong with a game, when your play experience is limited by being able to find a challenge.  Many MMOs will fall into this, where actually locating something to do takes up more time than doing the thing.  In SB, currently, you spend more time running in circles than you do fighting for pixels.

[Flying Dice]

I really think it's fine with the refinery. Copper bars convert into 10 pixels a pop, ore into 5 pixels a pop so if you just go for all the ore you find it should be fine. I've got 550 or so copper ore just from mining around. It rewards you for mining, and hanging out on a planet to mine.

This. The later in the game you get, the more late-game ores you get; and they are worth progressively more. Platinum is 50 an ore, and in the level 40 planets is really common. Additionally, mobs drop more as level increases. Methinks you are all just trying to scan everything too early in the game.

The refinery is good. The problem is with the 3D printer; I've repeatedly found myself back from a planet raid with 10k+ pixels and use all of them just scanning the things I wanted.

From the sounds of things, it's really not too grindy. Level 1->40 content in a few days? Fair enough, that's the current cap, that's about to be re-worked, but damn...... That's grindy? Like WoW. WoW.

I was honestly hoping the first basic 40% of the game might take me more than a week. Maybe I'm not a "gamer", but I'm definitely not Korean. Hehehe, the "grind" of Starbound's beta, a few days. It's lol'able.

The problem is the potential for it. Nothing above tier 3 is actually implemented properly now; everything above that just increases armor/armor pen by +1 for each tier, with no bosses/craftables beyond the next tier of metal. It took me close to eight hours of play to get past the UFO. I got from the start of tier 4 to endgame in two. Once there's actual grind there (and not just "lel find a planet with the right ore, dig for 15min") it'll be painful, and more importantly it'll almost certainly be excruciatingly linear in the same fashion as Hardmode Terraria. Except without magic stuff to keep things shiny.

Have you ever built any sort of large-scale construct in a game like this? It can take easily 2000+ blocks just for a square-shaped blob that barely fills a quarter of the screen, never mind something the size of the randomly generated bases/towns/whatever. The 3D printer needs to be able to print blocks because it would be absolutely idiotic for it not to, and they need to be cheap (1p per, in my view), because otherwise building anything interesting is prohibitively expensive. That same ~2000 block storage bunker? A minimum of 2000p with my preferred rate. Even with that cost a large building with lots of ornamentation could easily run 50k+ pixels.

If it isn't done right in-game, people are just going to use inventory editors like they did with Terraria. Because seriously, if I want to build my own human-style compound, I'm not fucking mining out an entire extant one for the materials and props, and I'm not grinding hundreds of thousands of pixels to print them.

I said it was fine for it to print blocks! Likewise I can't keep you from using inventory editors. I really don't mind that. I still think the refinery takes care of most of this on it's own. 10 pixels a bar, for copper. I dunno how fast it goes up, but if it even doubles, by the end of the third tier you're getting 90 pixels per bar/pair of ore. A large pocket, but by no means uncommon near the bottom of the map, of 20 ore, will give 1800 pixels.

The refinery both makes pixels at a pretty ridiculous rate, and encourages people to do something beyond running across the surface of the planet looking for treasure chests, beaming up, then going off to another planet to do it again. (I'd also like to say if I sounded cranky in my previous post, I really didn't mean to come off as such! I'm just presenting my point. Not trying to confront anyone.)

Did... did you even read my post?

I'm not taking an argumentative tone, I'm just saying... I make more in pixels from killing the things that attack me on a planet while I mine than I would if I melted down all of the bars in the refinery. My entire stock of copper (~800 bars) netted less than one surface trip to raid a castle. Either way, that's not the issue I was pointing out.

Let me put it this way: Some of the things I built in Terraria required upwards of 20,000 blocks to build. Assume a cost of 1p per block printed, and you've got a cost in the tens of thousands of pixels. Now add in the cost of all the props and you easily double the cost of the blocks. If blocks cost even 5p to produce it would be physically impossible for anyone to get enough pixels to build interesting things without either cheating or treating the game like a second job.

The bottom line is that if we want to be able to get creative and build things, there should not be this arbitrary barrier of either having to mine out a shitload of material from generated bases, or mine out a shitload of ore to be slowly melted down so we can buy the material. There's literally no reason to throw up barriers like that, and people who want to build under those conditions are either going to give up and not bother or give up and cheat in what they need. A game that forces people to cheat to enjoy it (for no reason at all, to boot) is flawed, especially when it would be so easy to integrate it into the extant mechanics.

[Kaitol]

If you're trying to build massive elaborate structures at tier one or two with tons of gaudy decorative items... its should take a lot of pixels/effort. You get more and more pixels as you progress, and as you do you get access to the ability to make more elaborate structures and print more and fancier items.

Aside from needing to be able to print blocks, it seems to be a pretty decent system to me. As well as possible price tweaking etc. MAYBE no/lower scan costs. And that's a big maybe. I don't have much trouble scanning whatever I want even at tier one.

You start with a small stone/wood shack, and slowly build up a stock of pixels/blueprints and can build better and better structures.

EDIT: Arbitrary.... Barrier? Does your definition of the word arbitrary just differ from the dictionary's, or do you really think they randomly slapped a pixel cost on everything for no reason? It's a game, not paint.exe. Games have to have progression. The whole point of building anything is the effort it took to build it. I can spend an hour or two underground pre-refinery on a tier one planet and come back up with 4-8k in pixels. It isn't hard to make money.

If you just want everything handed to you on a silver platter right off the boat.... go draw a picture?

[Flying Dice]

If you're trying to build massive elaborate structures at tier one or two with tons of gaudy decorative items... its should take a lot of pixels/effort. You get more and more pixels as you progress, and as you do you get access to the ability to make more elaborate structures and print more and fancier items.

Aside from needing to be able to print blocks, it seems to be a pretty decent system to me. As well as possible price tweaking etc. MAYBE no/lower scan costs. And that's a big maybe. I don't have much trouble scanning whatever I want even at tier one.

You start with a small stone/wood shack, and slowly build up a stock of pixels/blueprints and can build better and better structures.

No. I'm trying to build elaborate structures after reaching top tier and being bored, only to find that the only way to get the materials is days more of pointless grind, by which point I'll be too damn sick of the game to actually build anything. I've said it before, but I can literally make 10k pixels just by running around a X-sector world, and even a rate of gain like that isn't enough to reasonably deal with the costs.

As before, also, it is bloody stupid to have a pixel cost for scanning items. Not just mechanically, but logically.

[sambojin]

Haven't played it yet. I understand if there's not enough to do, but that's beta and content issues. Level scaling will hopefully be sorted. It just made me laugh that there were problems of grind in this sort of game, less than a week in. With moddable servers. In the early release beta.