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Author Topic: Starbound - We have lift off.  (Read 994542 times)

Frumple

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Re: Starbound - We have lift off.
« Reply #4035 on: December 06, 2013, 01:25:56 pm »

Ehn. Personally, every time I've tried to scan a seed it's ate the seed and done naught else. So far, same reaction with fish and plant critters, so I'm guessing either whatever is happening for other folks is a bug, or what's happening for me is. One of the two.

Anyway, it doesn't take too terribly much to just dirt up a space to keep stuff from getting in and make a farming area a few screens wide, maybe with a few levels. Haven't quite gone that far, yet, but a large farming space is fairly straightforward to construct, just takes a while to populate with seeds.

... that said, I'm still dying so much hunger isn't even remotely an issue. Freaking death charges coming out of stuff I've already killed mumblemumble. Starting up a farm just to see if/what buffs come out of cooking, though. Just one growing cycle from being able to test out a couple recipes, after my first batch of chili grows on up. Then it's probably back to dying some more~
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timferius

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Re: Starbound - We have lift off.
« Reply #4036 on: December 06, 2013, 01:31:21 pm »

Anyway to get recipes aside from random chests? I've only found a recipe for bolt o's so far... Yumm
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miauw62

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Re: Starbound - We have lift off.
« Reply #4037 on: December 06, 2013, 01:32:12 pm »

I just stripped down an entire prison. I then spent all of the money I got from killing everything inside said prison on scanning all the stuff I stole in the 3d printer. I can now make infinite filthy matresses, woo!
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Twi

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Re: Starbound - We have lift off.
« Reply #4038 on: December 06, 2013, 01:32:36 pm »

Good lord, armor gets useless almost immediately. My steel armor is  not keeping me from being oneshotted by level 13 apex guards. :C
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Girlinhat

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Re: Starbound - We have lift off.
« Reply #4039 on: December 06, 2013, 01:35:15 pm »

So after a few days of playing, I've reached a conclusion about the game:
It's very gamey, and progression isn't well thought out.

First, covering the construction aspects, which should be the biggest concern for a game like this.
The tier progression forces you deeper into space, constantly.  It takes 1,000 fuel to move to a new sector, so if you ever want to backtrack, it's going to cost you 2,000 fuel to go back to your home base and then go back to the useful areas again.  This effectively forces you to keep moving forward, as you cannot simply pop back home to pick up some supplies or anything.

Since you keep moving, there's a real virtue AGAINST permanent structures.  Even in local space, anything larger than a dirt hole with a bed and temporary storage is overkill.  And even then, it's a lot simpler to beam back to your ship, rather than go to your planetary basecamp to rest.  Not that your structures would be any good even if you spent time on them.  Wood, dirt, and cobblestone are the only truly readily abundant materials, metal blocks are possible, but only for certain types of metal, and only at extremely high cost.  Structures end up made from wood or stone, or just being dug into the ground.  Fancier materials do exist, namely in Apex or Glitch areas, where you can mine into the structure itself to recover fancy blocks, but you can't craft them, and you have to brave the dungeon-like area to get them.  So when you finally DO loot enough nice material to build something, you end up abandoning the planet anyways.

So as much as the dev screenshots show fancy buildings, gorgeous terrain, and theme decorations, it's only ever stuff you stumble across, not something a player should ever actually build.

Second is the combat, which is the other big thing this game has going for it.  Controls seem to be fine, except for the limited arc available on some weapons, and weird situations like the Terraria "slime is sitting 1 block below me on a ramp, my sword can't swing low enough but it can still touch me" issues.  There's a decent spread of crafted weapons, which are all decent, but looted gear is generally always garbage.

The problem with combat, is the AP system.  Armor Penetration.  As detailed previously in the thread, armor penetration is effectively a multiplier to the damage you deal, while armor divides your damage.  The result of this is that higher penetration is ALWAYS higher damage, and that after a certain point, armor becomes completely ineffective against certain levels of penetration.  What this means for the game, is that enemies scale with their difficulty level, raising their armor and their penetration, and that it quickly becomes extremely difficult to damage many enemies, while they can totally ignore your armor.  Higher level enemies simply become broken.  It's not even an issue of skill, it's a matter of 'they can kill you in one hit, while you have to deal 20 hits' that simply makes combat impossible.  A better strategy than fighting, is to simply have a lot of dirt, and throw it around yourself when a monster approaches, then encase the monster, dig yourself free, and continue, leaving it behind.

Bosses are worse in this respect.  The only way to really combat them is cheese.

Third problem I have is the tiers.  I like the idea of a game with progression, from one area to the next, so there's not everyone overpowered along with all the newbies all in the same area.  Since Starbound allows for multiple planets, you can allow older players to venture forth to more difficult areas.  The problem is how meta the tier system is.  To craft steel armor, you have to get enough steel, and gold armor.  Gold armor requires its own stack of gold ingots.  This makes no real sense, and gets into game-crafting areas.  The only reason that gold is requires, is to make it more difficult to obtain.  Steel armor shouldn't be layered over gold.  It's only there to force progression, and it does so poorly.  Gold armor is worse than iron/silver of the previous tier, so to obtain steel armor, you must craft a set of gold for the express purpose of sitting in your inventory until you get enough steel.

A lot of useful items are untiered, as well.  Being unable to craft guns relies on you finding them, from chests or merchants, which are 99% rubbish because they have low armor penetration value and, as above, that makes them useless.  Hunting knives and shields are also very useful, but only tier 1, becoming useless after defeating the UFO because they simply don't do enough damage or block anything.

The end result, if you ask me, is that the game is too focused on progression.  It pushes you further into space, abandoning old bases, figuring out why you need certain materials, and just popping up and down from your ship instead of handling real construction.

What I would do: Nerf or remove the armor penetration system, put a cooldown on beaming to and from ship, reduce fuel costs for moving places considerably (especially to places you've already been!), rework crafting requirements to get rid of illogical crafting, and allow more fancy building blocks to be crafted by the player.  Also make the ship MUCH bigger.

BigD145

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Re: Starbound - We have lift off.
« Reply #4040 on: December 06, 2013, 01:35:27 pm »

Do planets generate the same for everyone? Can I give a coordinate and you'll get the same planet and built labs/temples/etc?
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Mesa

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Re: Starbound - We have lift off.
« Reply #4041 on: December 06, 2013, 01:37:03 pm »

Do planets generate the same for everyone? Can I give a coordinate and you'll get the same planet and built labs/temples/etc?

Yes, they very much do.
The static things that I know of:

- terrain shape
- chests' etc. locations
- mini-boss locations
- other junk

Container contents do vary, however.
Check this world out: (and the associated system)
-60077428
-52252826

The world has an Avian dungeon sewers and multiple bandit camps. Go to the left (west?) to find them the fastest.

The other world in the system has a giant Glitch castle and some smaller hi-tech houses scattered about (including a one similar to that which I don't understand the point of).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 01:54:08 pm by DarkDXZ »
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BigD145

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Re: Starbound - We have lift off.
« Reply #4042 on: December 06, 2013, 01:38:30 pm »

This is the best fucking spawn ever, then, if you like platforming.
x 99182678 y 70716917 alpha chi car 19 II a
forest threat 6
Head right.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=99946.msg4815813#msg4815813
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 01:41:51 pm by BigD145 »
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Twi

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Re: Starbound - We have lift off.
« Reply #4043 on: December 06, 2013, 01:39:27 pm »

-snip-

While this is a nicely reasoned thing and I don't want to nitpick:

It does not appear to cost any extra fuel to travel between sectors. Standard 300.
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Girlinhat

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Re: Starbound - We have lift off.
« Reply #4044 on: December 06, 2013, 01:52:08 pm »

-snip-

While this is a nicely reasoned thing and I don't want to nitpick:

It does not appear to cost any extra fuel to travel between sectors. Standard 300.
I thought it was 1 to travel moon-planet, like 100 between planets, 300 between stars in the same sector, and 1,000 to travel to another sector (like tier 1 zone to tier 2 zone)

umiman

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Re: Starbound - We have lift off.
« Reply #4045 on: December 06, 2013, 01:53:01 pm »

My only real problem with the game is that the difficulty is stupid past tier 2. That can easily be altered though.

Chattox

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Re: Starbound - We have lift off.
« Reply #4046 on: December 06, 2013, 02:03:05 pm »

Any issues with game balance and progression are essentially a moot point currently, as it's been stated multiple times by the devs that the whole thing is incredibly unbalanced and not working. I kinda think they caved to peer pressure with everyone and their dog screaming "GIBE BETA PLS" on their forums every day. It's still great as it is, though.
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Twi

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Re: Starbound - We have lift off.
« Reply #4047 on: December 06, 2013, 02:05:00 pm »

-snip-

While this is a nicely reasoned thing and I don't want to nitpick:

It does not appear to cost any extra fuel to travel between sectors. Standard 300.
I thought it was 1 to travel moon-planet, like 100 between planets, 300 between stars in the same sector, and 1,000 to travel to another sector (like tier 1 zone to tier 2 zone)
Well, I just went to sector 2 and I didn't even have 1000 fuel.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Starbound - We have lift off.
« Reply #4048 on: December 06, 2013, 02:06:36 pm »

-snip-

While this is a nicely reasoned thing and I don't want to nitpick:

It does not appear to cost any extra fuel to travel between sectors. Standard 300.
I thought it was 1 to travel moon-planet, like 100 between planets, 300 between stars in the same sector, and 1,000 to travel to another sector (like tier 1 zone to tier 2 zone)
Nope. 1 for any travel between planets and moons orbiting each other, and 300 to travel between any two systems. I'm in the fourth sector and every inter-sector jump has taken the same 300 fuel.

OTOH, I strongly agree with you about armor penetration. It's an absolutely moronic system that encourages cheese rather than combat. The same for progression; at the point I'm at, upgrading armor sets gives +1 armor for each successive set. The combat feels like it could be interesting if it was mechanically better. I also am rather annoyed by the fact that permanent settlements are pointless (at least until top-tier), and the utter lack of meaningful ranged weapons. There is literally nothing useful for ranged combat after the steel bow.

How do you grow food, anyway?
You need to craft a stone hoe, use that on some dirt, then plant your seeds. You harvest by pressing 'e' (like using the teleporter). You don't start with many seeds so it's worth going up to your ship and using the 3D printer to make more. Put one in the scan slot, hit scan, leave the GUI, and it gives you another seed (repeat as needed).

If it's any consolation I'm finding the platforming fiddly too, and I like platformers.

I put a seed in, hit scan, the seed disappeared. Closed the printer, nothing happened. Opened it again, nothing happened. I seem to have just lost my seed, and it won't even let me print new ones. There's nothing in my schematics list.
People are probably talking about the duping glitch, where you can put an item into the scan slot, close the interface without scanning, and it adds another of the item to the stack.
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Ibid Straydrink

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Re: Starbound - We have lift off.
« Reply #4049 on: December 06, 2013, 02:09:01 pm »

-snip-

While this is a nicely reasoned thing and I don't want to nitpick:

It does not appear to cost any extra fuel to travel between sectors. Standard 300.
I thought it was 1 to travel moon-planet, like 100 between planets, 300 between stars in the same sector, and 1,000 to travel to another sector (like tier 1 zone to tier 2 zone)

As far as I know, it's actually 1/50/300 now. Not sure whether or not the third cost stacks if you travel between multiple sectors, or if sectors are even laid out in such a way.

Also, what sort of threat-levels are you tackling? I find I'm generally ok with med supplies up to at least level 10, decked out in steel and silver armor. Is it possible that the real issue is overpowered bosses and a lack of subsequent upgrades?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 02:10:49 pm by Ibid Straydrink »
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