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[alexandertnt]

Remember the worst a race gets the better the best one gets and the easier the game essentially is. Since everything will be put through the "Can the worst race do it?".

That only applies of the game's difficulty were to be scaled to average out the difficulty for the races (9 races, 4 easy 4 hard and one just right for example). If we had 5 nicely-balanced races with a just-right difficulty, then introduced weaker races, they wont actually make the "best" race any easier to play (If we dont select the weaker characters then they wont influence the game in any way). And what I stress is that this unbalancing that would be fun should be reasonably mild. Yes, the worse race should be able to do it, just being somewhat more difficult than a "normal" race (still reasonable accomplishable though).

Such a thing should probably be better introduced with a larger character roster though, so there is still a variety of balanced characters. I sort of see something like intentionally-unbalanced characters being the exception not the rule.

[Neonivek]

That only applies of the game's difficulty were to be scaled to average out the difficulty for the races

On the contrary, you seem to have misunderstood me. The game's difficulty would HAVE to be scaled out for the difficulty of the WORST race.

It has nothing to do with the mean, medium, or average.

I sort of see something like intentionally-unbalanced characters being the exception not the rule.

Well the discussion is on "Race as difficulty" meaning that if there were five races they are from hard to easy. It is different from a Handicap Race or a Non-lethal Joke Race

[alexandertnt]

Well the discussion is on "Race as difficulty" meaning that if there were five races they are from hard to easy. It is different from a Handicap Race or a Non-lethal Joke Race

Ah. Well personally I just would like to see some more interesting race variation in regards to balance and difficulty, not necessarily use race's as a difficulty selection.

In regards to difficulty as race, if you had a hard/easy race, it would end up the same as a hard/easy option but with a sprite swap. The issues would be multiplayer (since users should not really be able to select a difficulty option here, at least in competitive multiplayer.) and perhaps personal preference for the specific race. So difficulty-as-race would probably not work too well in a competitive multiplayer game.

[forsaken1111]

But what if I find bland, cosmetic-only races to be boring? That doesn't make a good game for me.

Then don't play Starbound? I mean really, why are you here? To complain that a game you obviously won't like due to its bland races won't have a feature that you do like?

[Neonivek]

I once played a game where there were three selectible characters from easy to hard. In the end though they were all equally capable but the difficulty refered to their difficulty curves.

I'd prefer that to be the measure of "Races as difficulty"

[alexandertnt]

But what if I find bland, cosmetic-only races to be boring? That doesn't make a good game for me.

Then don't play Starbound? I mean really, why are you here? To complain that a game you obviously won't like due to its bland races won't have a feature that you do like?

Darkmere was providing an example in regards to the previous post (The previous post stated that fun > realism, and Darkmere gave an example where the Rule of Fun and realism could cross). I dont think he was referring directly to Starbound. Also it seems perfectly reasonable to discuss why you many not like the game on a thread about the game.

[forsaken1111]

But what if I find bland, cosmetic-only races to be boring? That doesn't make a good game for me.

Then don't play Starbound? I mean really, why are you here? To complain that a game you obviously won't like due to its bland races won't have a feature that you do like?

Darkmere was providing an example in regards to the previous post (The previous post stated that fun > realism, and Darkmere gave an example where the Rule of Fun and realism could cross). I dont think he was referring directly to Starbound. Also it seems perfectly reasonable to discuss why you many not like the game on a thread about the game.

I merely asked him what his motivations were, I never said he was unreasonable or that he should stop discussing it. I just don't understand the motivation to enter a thread for a game which you don't think you will enjoy and post about the things you won't like in it. I'm not referring only to Darkmere here, but anyone else who does the same thing. I see it a lot, and I have to wonder why.

[Graknorke]

Because the discussion would look very one sided if it was everyone just pouring endless praise on the game and its developers? Unreasonable negative things are probably slightly less useful than mindless asskissing, because it actually gives an idea of what people like and don't like, whereas mindless asskissing doesn't give any feedback.
Also because most of these things are from people who DO like the game, so they want it to be better by having things that they would like more.

[forsaken1111]

Makes a certain sense I suppose, I was just curious.

[Darkmere]

To clarify, I was commenting in a general sense. I do find aesthetic-only races boring and would prefer at least a bit of gameplay variety between races. It troubles me that in the whole discussion, "play what's best" universally trumps "play what you think is fun."

I'll make a wild guess at how Starbound might work and put it in these terms: Say there's a race of fuzzy bipedal spacebunnies who wear glasses and have a bonus to research. Every time you research a project, they have a 5% chance to make a related minor bonus discovery. There's another race of 4-armed lizardmen who have a bonus to weapons production, such that whenever they toss crafting materials into the weapon-o-matic machine, there's a 5% chance that they make an extra weapon with similar parts quality. There's a racial difference that doesn't directly make one "better" and the other "suck." I guess I just didn't understand why everyone immediately took racial selection into fighting game territory.

Also, I honestly have no idea if I'll like Starbound or not, because we have seen no gameplay whatsoever (Unless you want the core of the game to only be running around caves with a flashlight, or throwing water switches). It's working for their hype market now because not having anything concrete makes it VERY easy for potential customers to draw conclusions about what they want, and in the absence of evidence, assume Starbound will have it. I've fallen for that before; this time I'm going to wait and see. Please note that not being unreasonably excited over a game we have little actual info on does not mean I hate it.

[Kaitol]

Little info? I think they've been pretty darn clear what the game will be like. They've got indepth blog entries for most mechanics. And as someone who's followed the blog since it was started, without doing any other sort of research, I've got a pretty clear idea what the game will be like without making any assumptions. The only thing I'm really curious to see is exactly how planet bases will work, and the type of quests you'll get/ how the main story will work.

[Moogie]

Knowing how mechanics work isn't really the same as experiencing them in the game; whether they feel intuitive, if the controls work properly, how annoying certain things are to do, etc. You can't know those things without trying a demo or (to a limited extent) watching gameplay videos.

[mattie2009]

I'm wondering if it'll be possible to make water-pressure elevators.

[Darkmere]

They've made promises. If they deliver, so much the better. The argument has already been made and I'm not itching for a derail here, so I'll leave it at that.

[Devling]

Why don't we have each race have an ability which can not be easily compared to the other races abilities.
Not like, 5% bonus to research, 5% bonus to weapon crafting, like, the space bunnies have an ability which makes them jump reeaaaalllly high, and the lizards can grab enemies from far away with a tongue.
BAM, personal preferences, neither is better since each ability can be performed by the other, but it is harder.
(The bunnies would have to chase down enemies, lizards would have to make ladders up to places.)