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[Monkeyfacedprickleback]

Are the adventurers going to be part of the world itself (i.e. will they be uploaded at the end of someone's turn)? I thought that people would just download the map and adventure the hell out of it without affecting the world people are building on.

I think thats how it works. People build a fort, take it to it's doom or retire it. Then other people Come in and try and conquer said fort as an adventurer. THose people Can wright stories about what they did as adventurers and fort builders can write journals or diaries about the fort they built.
Something along the line of "I have a growing fear of the outside world so Now i will make a maze to protect me and my kin."
I don't think it'll be neccesarry for you to follow any of the rules about killing notables if you're not going to pass on the save.

Another issue is if you're making a historical adventurer who has a specific goal, Ie: Reclaim the legendary artifact Adamantine Longsword from the Clown infested ruins of Fellswords, Will you be able to kill more Notables? I mean even if you start as a demigod grind for a 12 hours straight and take a dozen companions with you on the shortest path to the fort you can, you might have to kill a goblin or bandit ambush to finish your quest.

SO do big community adventurers get to kill more notable figures?

[Phantom of The Library]

I'd be up for this.
I think that as soon as the brain-storming is finished a new thread should be made for cleanliness in signing up purposes.

[Monkeyfacedprickleback]

I'd be up for this.
I think that as soon as the brain-storming is finished a new thread should be made for cleanliness in signing up purposes.

When we actuaally start it Someone will make a new thread. I think it'll be poindextery or girlinhat or someone.

[Eric Blank]

So how is this going? I dont want to read 20 pages...

It's going very well. As far as I can tell, we're just about ready to begin once the new version comes out. Nobody has expressed much more complaint about the world (flux everywhere, damnit! Any more and it just wouldn't be !!FUN!!), we have a set of rules and persons willing to manage a thread. About all I can see now is a need for agreeing on exactly what we'll need mod-wise (not much at all, honestly. A slightly edited Wanderer's Friend mod...) and a finalization of the rules.

In fact here is the sixth prototype of the world: link!

Have we discussed making elves/goblins/humans/(god forbid, kobolds) playable as an alternative to dwarves? It would require a minimal amount of modding, and the world might be made richer by those who wish to contribute a non-dwarf site.

No, but it is generally agreed that it will be awesome to play as adventurers of any race desired. I think this is actually a good idea, though. Hell, it actually simulates warfare in a way, since a goblin tower would be constantly assaulted by dwarves, elves, and humans. And elven retreats (Some serious heresy you'd be committing there. The worst kind of heresy!) would be subject to any wars we start with their civs in previous forts!
Hmm... We'd basically be waging war on one-another. And that could be !!FUN!!
 And yeah it wouldn't be too hard to mod in. I suspect it could be controversial, though.

Another issue is if you're making a historical adventurer who has a specific goal, Ie: Reclaim the legendary artifact Adamantine Longsword from the Clown infested ruins of Fellswords, Will you be able to kill more Notables? I mean even if you start as a demigod grind for a 12 hours straight and take a dozen companions with you on the shortest path to the fort you can, you might have to kill a goblin or bandit ambush to finish your quest.

SO do big community adventurers get to kill more notable figures?

The way I took it, was that adventurers wouldn't be included in any save that is passed along; the save could be hosted on the dffd and spread around as a fine-tuned world for any players to enjoy, but officially end as a community game with the fortresses. I'll vote for permitting players to create an adventurer after their turn, but on 5 strict conditions:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 1) Your fort has died, preferably not through abandonment, and you still have time (a day or more) left on your turn.
 2) You cannot enter any fortresses that are marked by their creator as dungeons to be completed by an adventurer for the treasure at the end. Most of these, and many of the traps in them, would be one-time only. If you ran that dungeon and uploaded the save, you would be directly detracting from future players' experiences because there would be no way to reset those traps or treasure short of reclaiming the fortress.
 3) As a limit on the potential for mass destruction of historical figures with less confusion and circumventing forced random encounters like ambushes: you may kill as many as you like, but only 3 quest targets (bandit leaders, megabeasts and wild beasts, night creatures and necromancers/vampires/werebeasts.) The world may still be short on quest targets after all those adventurers, I suppose. Get your necromancer slaying fix somewhere else is my suggestion, since they may be excedingly rare.
 4) You have a maximum of 24 hours real-time since the destruction of your fort to adventure (a complimentary rule about announcing the death of your fort immediately should be included), and this could be cut short if you're nearing the end of your 10-day turn and people are fed-up with waiting/you abandoned the fort to adventure like a wus.
 5) You only get one shot at adventuring, even if you're eaten by a groundhog before making it to your first quest target. and no savescumming, altohugh we technically couldn't enforce it if you savescummed and hadn't yet informed us of your adventures.

[Loud Whispers]

Do repeaters still work in adventure mode (after fortress death). Totally want to make a spike maze :3

[Poindexterity]

Another issue is if you're making a historical adventurer who has a specific goal, Ie: Reclaim the legendary artifact Adamantine Longsword from the Clown infested ruins of Fellswords, Will you be able to kill more Notables? I mean even if you start as a demigod grind for a 12 hours straight and take a dozen companions with you on the shortest path to the fort you can, you might have to kill a goblin or bandit ambush to finish your quest.

SO do big community adventurers get to kill more notable figures?

The way I took it, was that adventurers wouldn't be included in any save that is passed along; the save could be hosted on the dffd and spread around as a fine-tuned world for any players to enjoy, but officially end as a community game with the fortresses.

This was the way i envisioned it as well, even though i realize this has grown far beyond my vision.

[Graebeard]

This looks like a great project.  Can't wait to see how much fun this is for adventurers once we have a few dozen fortresses built.

Please sign me up for a turn!

Regarding timing, with all the changes and new material coming for adventure mode, it's clear that when this project is fully completed it'll be better if it's done in the new release rather than 31.25.

With that said, it may be a while before we can get started, even after the new release.  We'll have to wait for DFHack and every other utility we want to use to be updated.  The initial releases are frequently buggy, so with a project as grand as this, it may be worth waiting for a few of the first bug fix releases.  That will also minimize the potential for bugs to crop up as the save passes through dozens of versions of DF in its year-long trek to greatness.  A few such bugs really put a damper on Skyscrapes as it moved from 31.02 to 31.25.

With that in mind, the huge and immediate interest in this project, the long wait times, and the talk of splitting this up into two worlds, I have the following suggestion:

Start a trial/demo succession world right now in 31.25.

It's going to be a long time before any release is as stable as .25, and in a project like this stability is key.  It'll also let people start playing right away and flag issues we haven't thought of yet.  Oh, and it'll be a fitting legacy for 31, a great last hurrah for future players to explore and get a flavor of this version.

I would start this up myself, but I currently have about 2 hours per week I can dorf, so I can only make the suggestion.  If someone agrees with me they should take the initiative and get this moving right away.

[Monkeyfacedprickleback]

Nah we won't have to wait that long after the new release comes out. The first fortresses, probably won't use DfHack or any other utilities.
so say five forts gives us like 30-60 days for dfhack and whatnot to catch up. It may be worth it to may a roster of who's ready to make a utility-less fort and whos not, so people who want to make a fort into a site, don't have to settle for a more standard fort death. Though I'm not sure about how the other utilities will affect the game. I don't think any of them will actaully be neccessary for the origin save since i remember It coming up that except in special areas this whole persistant world should be mostly unmodded.

[Gizogin]

Does anyone know what the status of the next release is?  I know that Toady said tomorrow (15 Jan) would be the earliest possible release date, and the devlogs on the main page seem to imply (to me, at least) that it's nearing completion.

[Phantom of The Library]

Nah we won't have to wait that long after the new release comes out. The first fortresses, probably won't use DfHack or any other utilities.
so say five forts gives us like 30-60 days for dfhack and whatnot to catch up. It may be worth it to may a roster of who's ready to make a utility-less fort and whos not, so people who want to make a fort into a site, don't have to settle for a more standard fort death. Though I'm not sure about how the other utilities will affect the game. I don't think any of them will actaully be neccessary for the origin save since i remember It coming up that except in special areas this whole persistant world should be mostly unmodded.

I rarely use any utilities so I'm used to it.  If no one else feels like it, I could take the first turn then.

Does anyone know what the status of the next release is?  I know that Toady said tomorrow (15 Jan) would be the earliest possible release date, and the devlogs on the main page seem to imply (to me, at least) that it's nearing completion.

I dunno' sounds to me like it's going to be a while still, he's still putting stuff in, and for everything he puts in he has to test for a while.

[Graebeard]

I've never used the Perfect World utility, so I don't know how sensitive it is to changes to DF or how easy/hard it is to update.  If there are no utilities necessary for genning the world or for the first embark, then it's certainly possible to get started immediately.

That doesn't eliminate stability issues.  Like I said, it's going to be a long, long time before there is another release as stable as 31.25.  You all remember the panoply of game-crashing bugs that came with the first DF 2010 releases, right?  The earlier you start a project like this in the release cycle the more likely such bugs are to kill or cripple the project.

I'm not saying people shouldn't do this project with the new release.  I think it's a great idea.  It's such a good idea, in fact, that I really hope it isn't killed by bugs and delays.  And it's a great idea for the current, stable version we have now, too.

[Elifre]

I never use any utilities other than Dwarf Therapist occasionally. I certainly wouldn't mind getting on the list sooner if that'll be a factor.

[Eric Blank]

I've never used the Perfect World utility, so I don't know how sensitive it is to changes to DF or how easy/hard it is to update.  If there are no utilities necessary for genning the world or for the first embark, then it's certainly possible to get started immediately.

That doesn't eliminate stability issues.  Like I said, it's going to be a long, long time before there is another release as stable as 31.25.  You all remember the panoply of game-crashing bugs that came with the first DF 2010 releases, right?  The earlier you start a project like this in the release cycle the more likely such bugs are to kill or cripple the project.

I'm not saying people shouldn't do this project with the new release.  I think it's a great idea.  It's such a good idea, in fact, that I really hope it isn't killed by bugs and delays.  And it's a great idea for the current, stable version we have now, too.

Perfect World seems to work perfectly between versions. All you need to compensate for is new world gen variables it doesn't list, which basically means editing those ones through the normal text file. The other utilities not so much, so I agree with reorganizing the turn list based on whose heads won't explode without them. Hmm... Lets try this: if it comes to a player's turn and utilities aren't out yet that they demand, then they may forfeit their turn and we move down the list until someone is willing to play. When the utilities demanded by a player who forfeited their turn are available, they may take their turn immediately after the current player, and we move up the list in order again.

I don't expect any real game-ending bugs to appear by starting with the next version. I say go right ahead, and if the project becomes impossible to continue then we can restart. I doubt that it will ever be impossible to procede, however.

[Kibstable]

Dwarf names:
I'm assuming that dwarves that have their names changed by the player may show up in another players fort in a later turn.  It might be a good thing for each fort to have a ruling family, that adds the fort name to their own name, that way, they and their children will be linked to their past better.
A family named dwarf should not then be the ruling family in a future fort to keep the lineage.

Eventually forts may get migrants, all of whom are refugees from past er... disasters ... population explosions  Beer shortages.

[Eric Blank]

That sounds awesome, actually.

Also, I generated a 400-year-old world with entirely vanilla DF + a new entity and file full of duplicates of the animal men and other sentient above-ground races (and gremlins and trolls, but not mega or semi-megabeasts) This was done to test how it would turn out and prepare that part of the mods. How many people will want Wanderer's Friend mod? It's actually pretty useful.

Anyway, I think we'll need a site cap lower than 25000, since the bloody elves and humans conquered practically every square inch of living space. Far too densely populated to provide embark space for us.

biome+site map of said world + horrible jpeg compression gah:
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3461/worldgraphicregion14111.jpg

Spoiler (click to show/hide)