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[Neonivek]

Have you ever played a Space Marine Real time strategy game?

 

I don't know how anyone could interpret it as anything other than that

Maybe some people like Space Marines that blow things up... maybe they made entire movies and videogames based on that very concept.

It is only a complaint if "Space marines that blow up scary aliens" somehow enter into the "undesirable" territory... in a game about blowing aliens up.

[Sergius]

Have you ever played a Space Marine Real time strategy game?

 

I don't know how anyone could interpret it as anything other than that

Maybe some people like Space Marines that blow things up... maybe they made entire movies and videogames based on that very concept.

It is only a complaint if "Space marines that blow up scary aliens" somehow enter into the "undesirable" territory... in a game about blowing aliens up.

I'm just pointing out why people would think you're being derisive about the new game. It's like comparing one with having a nice steak with a glass of fine wine, and the other with frat boys drinking straight from the keg and munching microwaved pizza, but "there's nothing wrong with that, some people prefer the latter".

I personally don't care if you like one or the other better, some people here who have seen the footage (incluiding me) don't think that it showed the X-Com as some sort of wild pack of fearless grunts shooting aliens Rambo-style (even if it's a perfectly valid kind of entertainment).

I'm sure your intention is talking about Space Marines (Warhammer and its RTS, I know) as some sort of refined tactical and strategical activity, and it may be so, but "bunch of space marines with lotsa big guns killing scary aliens" doesn't reflect that. If I was to say, for example "highly specialised and trained team of "Space Marines" specifically hired to deal with alien threats" it would. And even then, why say Space Marines? Bulky armor does not translate to "space marine" does it?

How is "space marine" different from "highly trained team of soldiers" in your mind? Just curious.

[Neonivek]

Bulky armor does not translate to "space marine" does it?

No, but you also have to look at their muscles and weapon size.

How is "space marine" different from "highly trained team of soldiers" in your mind? Just curious.

I am trying to express the concept in my mind of the difference between a team of soldiers who are charged with killing aliens (Current Xcom)

and the almost "If Men in Black were real" original Xcom feel. They sort of felt like more then just soldiers and grunts on the field.

In terms of combat the original Xcom were like Swat and the Current Xcom are like soldiers.

[Sergius]

Bulky armor does not translate to "space marine" does it?

No, but you also have to look at their muscles and weapon size.

How is "space marine" different from "highly trained team of soldiers" in your mind? Just curious.

I am trying to express the concept in my mind of the difference between a team of soldiers who are charged with killing aliens (Current Xcom)

and the almost "If Men in Black were real" original Xcom feel. They sort of felt like more then just soldiers and grunts on the field.

So would you agree that the original was "a bunch of soldiers blowing up the enemy with a barrage of Blaster Bombs"? Because that certainly is what it felt to me after I had managed to win a few of the initial missions. How about "bunch of psionic rapists that made aliens shoot each other without lifting a finger"? Is it more accurate?

I don't know. I'm trying to remember exactly how the original X-Com was like black ops swat men in black. Bunch of soldiers shooting stuff to me, really. Still, very fun.

EDIT: I'm starting to think that there is a psychological factor in all this, related to all the mystery and "fear of the unknown" that the first game put into all of us who played it for the first time, and somehow we look back and associate that feeling with how the game actually plays like. I mean, it was damn scary because you didn't know what was going on most of the time unless you had played it thru a few times. Then BLAM, new alien, does new scary stuff. Could say the same happened in the 2nd and 3rd games, because the enemies and their abilities kept changing, the research was new, the storyline was unknown. But this game is a remake (they have promised some surprises to try to achieve the same effect, but obviously they ain't showing them... if they exist at all, that is). So, probably for all of us, "look, the chrysalid turns people into zombies while eating them from the inside" our reaction is "meh. Seen it. The first one did it better." But did it really, or we were just scared because it was new and unexpected?

[Neonivek]

Doesn't this Xcom take place after the first? so they actually DO know these alien threats?

[Sergius]

Doesn't this Xcom take place after the first? so they actually DO know these alien threats?

What? I'm pretty sure it doesn't, if they don't start with lasers and plasmas and power armor and even have to have alien interrogation/autopsies all over again. What would be the point?

Just to be clear, they have explicitly stated that these demos and videos feature mid and end-game equipment.

"It is a re-imagining remake of the 1994 classic strategy game UFO: Enemy Unknown (also known as X-COM: UFO Defense)" according to Wikipedia.

[Neonivek]

Wait what? Then why are they dressing like that?

[Mephansteras]

Wait what? Then why are they dressing like that?

Because those are mid/late game shots that they've been demoing?

[timferius]

Wait what? Then why are they dressing like that?

In the video you mean? They mentioned that it was mid-game, and that they had already reserached Alloy armour or some such, so I imagine your beggining squads aren't going to be all decked out in battle armour yet.

[Sergius]

Besides, bulkiness in body shape, armor and/or weapons are merely a stylistic choices. Everyone knows that box-shaped assault rifles means you are 20 minutes into The Future. After that, everything becomes iPod-shaped.

[Neonivek]

Besides, bulkiness in body shape, armor and/or weapons are merely a stylistic choices. Everyone knows that box-shaped assault rifles means you are 20 minutes into The Future. After that, everything becomes iPod-shaped.

It does fit very well with the aestetic they are trying to achieve.

[Sergius]

Sure does. But like I said, having a certain aesthetic has no bearing on the gameplay or how "soldiery" vs how "swaty" it is. They never did anything swat-like in the original game (I don't think leveling barns with grenades, and then proceed to finish everything off with an incendiary Gatling counts).

[Neonivek]

Sure does. But like I said, having a certain aesthetic has no bearing on the gameplay or how "soldiery" vs how "swaty" it is.

On the contrary Aestetics is an important aspect of gameplay.

Also they did do "Swat-like" things in the original... if you didn't know the exploits... which you seem to have played the game entirely with them.

Reminds me of a strategy game I played once... where one faction could ENTIRELY ignore every single building, upgrade, and unit and just build exactly one to win. Since that strategy trumps all others.

I still like that they gave police officers guns and they may actually fire upon the aliens... (hmm I think I may be imagining this... where did I hear this?)

[Sharp]

I think nostalgia and it being original and unknown does give a lot of influence for people, myself included.

The new XCOM is more like XCOM: Enemy mostly known about to people who played the original.

I also think the argument about Space Marine vs original XCOM goes in the way of armour aesthetics, even the demo footage of an early mission they have fairly bulky armour when compared to the coveralls of the original, however the non-aesthetic part that makes it space-mariney is still that you have 4 members vs a horde of aliens while in the original you would actually have more or equal number of units to the aliens and could still have trouble not losing a lot of soldiers, it would be extremely difficult to do an early mission even against a landed small scout or crashed medium scout with only 4 rookies where it would be 1:1 number vs the aliens. Also the emphasis on cover, while cover was a factor in the original it wasn't the do or die factor that it seems in this new game which seems to follow the rules of all games now of being cover based shooters, cover helped in the original but just because you were crouching by that wall didn't mean the alien wouldn't one-shot you and vice versa on the aliens though in the early game it was more like blowing up the aliens cover to kill it.

Yes late game you can wipe out alien bases with 4 guys in power armour for the space marine style (and heck you do go to Mars so you can consider them space marines, even if they aren't wearing any armour ) of playing but it's suicidal to not outnumber the aliens in early missions where they have the great tech advantage.

One thing I hated in the stream though was whenever Jake Solomon kept on saying "remember this is XCOM" whenever a soldier missed a shot, especially when the chance was <50% to make the shot in the first place, I was like "no Jake, this is maths!" . XCOM was missing all shots with autofire on an alien right next to you, or the opposite glory of stray shot flying through two windows to kill a completely different alien then you were firing at.

I wouldn't say original was like SWAT at all, more like soldiers facing an unknown scary threat, I think in the original on the early missions (especially night ones) it had the atmosphere of 'the aliens are out here somewhere and they are going to kill us!' while this new one has more of an atmosphere like 'the aliens are out here somewhere, let's find em to kick their asses and smoke cigars'.

[LoSboccacc]

I still like that they gave police officers guns and they may actually fire upon the aliens... (hmm I think I may be imagining this... where did I hear this?)

dunno, but the other clone does it (xenonauts)