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[MetalSlimeHunt]

Indeed, a decent description of the Supreme Court's job is "closing loopholes".

[RedKing]

No argument there. Law in China has pretty much ALWAYS been that way. Power (and money) trumps law.

But then, is it really any different in the US? HSBC got busted for laundering billions for the Mexican cartels. If a individual person were found guilty of laundering as little as $10,000 they'd be in prison. But a big bank does it, and just gets slapped with a fine. Nobody went to jail or was held personally accountable. A relatively small number of greedy fucking assholes in Wall Street hedge funds jointly tanked the US economy. Almost none of them saw prison time or economic damages.

One of my favorite examples is when former Dallas Cowboys football player Nate Newton was busted driving an entire vanload of marijuana. 175 pounds of marijuana. He got 30 months and a $25,000 fine. If that had been you or me, we'd be in prison for life. There are two justice systems in the US: one for the haves, one for the have-nots. Our system is a lot more harsh.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

In China HSBC wouldn't have gotten caught at all. They'd be running both the cartels and the local government behind the scenes, while also laundering money for them.

[Darvi]

Of course rich people can still immediately get out by paying a grand.

[RedKing]

In China HSBC wouldn't have gotten caught at all. They'd be running both the cartels and the local government behind the scenes, while also laundering money for them.

No, they wouldn't have gotten caught UNTIL the public found out about it and it became a big embarassment for the government. At which point most of the executives involved would have been executed.

Say what you want about the Chinese legal system (and I make no bones about the fact that horrific injustices occur regularly within it), but when there's a major cock-up, heads DO roll. Literally.

Transpose that here, and there would have been dozens of death sentences handed down out of the AIG and Lehman Brothers scandals.
Bernie Madoff wouldn't be sitting pretty and smirking about how he's a legend over at the prison in Butner.
The guys in charge of the Deepwater Horizon fiasco in the Gulf would be dead.
The top guys at that mining company in West Virginia that basically didn't give a shit about safety procedures? Dead or in prison.
This jackoff that runs that pharmacy responsible for the meningitis outbreak? Yeah, none of this "I invoke my 5th Amendment rights" bullshit. They'd pull out his fingernails until he confessed and THEN shoot him.


Yeah, I know, I know..."that's not the way we do things in America". More's the pity when it comes to the rich and powerful. Corporations in China are NOT people. Which means when they screw up big time, there *is* accountability -- assuming there's enough outcry to bring it to Beijing's attention and enough public anger to make them think twice about trying to sweep it under the rug.

[mainiac]

Isn't all that stuff caused by too few laws, not too many?  The problem with the financial industry is that essentially there were no laws regulating what they were doing.  Institutions were engaging in practices that were essentially banking but without any of the compliance and disclosure that banks have to obey.  This lead to a rash of abuses of that freedom because they were doing things that weren't regulated but clearly should have been.

I do not see any way for the Chinese system to be reformed without a complete overhaul that starts with completely re-envisioning the legal system and changing the role of the judiciary.  Basically you need to throw the system out and start over.  I do see how the American system can be made to work, just write new laws to correct the abuses.

When a new computer virus comes out we dont all go out and buy macs, we update our anti-virus software.

[GreatJustice]

Isn't all that stuff caused by too few laws, not too many?  The problem with the financial industry is that essentially there were no laws regulating what they were doing.  Institutions were engaging in practices that were essentially banking but without any of the compliance and disclosure that banks have to obey.  This lead to a rash of abuses of that freedom because they were doing things that weren't regulated but clearly should have been.

What regulations do you think there should have been?

[Nadaka]

For starters? Glass-Steagal

[Mephansteras]

Ninja'd a bit, but here is the wikipedia article on the Glass-Steagal act.

Something which should never, ever have been removed.

[mainiac]

What regulations do you think there should have been?

To put it briefly, it should not be legal to engage in bank type lending and investment unless you follow the regulations and disclosure practices of a bank.

[Eagle_eye]

yeah, repealing glass-steagal was probably the most destructive thing done by the government since.. vietnam, maybe?

[Darvi]

Since the Boston Tea Party.

Seriously, that was a damn waste of tea.

[Descan]

And ever since then, the Boston harbour has smelt -delicious-.

[GreatJustice]

How did the repeal of Glass Steagal cause the crisis?

[Eagle_eye]

It allowed banks that deal with mortgages and savings accounts and the like to get involved in investment banking, which is far more risky, thus putting far more money at risk.