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[Eagle_eye]

Uniting to fight "that other guy" is pretty much never a good thing, at least when it comes to stuff like this. That sort of unity is fragile and based upon hatred.

No, No. Did I mention it was that nationalism that united Italy from fragmented city-states? Because it was. And germany, in that same time period, went from 36 various kingdoms to 1.
 

Nationalism can be good too. Started the American revolutionary war, united Germany, Italy, freed various contries from empires. It's people who take it too far who are the problem.

Minor difference between nationalism and patriotism.

Nationalism is my country right or wrong.

Patriotism is my country because it is right.

No. No. No. Those are the same things. I could easily use either to start a war, or a revolution. the american revolution was nationalistic, despite what they say. In fact, I find it a piece of unbeilevable hypocrasy that the US has no "nationalism", that scary word, only patriotism. Nationalism, ended the empires which oppresed most of europe. It was Nationalistic sentiment that helped end communist Rule is various parts of the Former Soviet union. Nationalism is not all evil.

The american revolution was a rich person's tax revolt that got carried away. Nationalism didn't end imperialism in Europe, it strengthened it. You're right in that nationalism united germany. This is the same Germany that had a temper tantrum every 20 years or so until the end of WWII. Italy after unification was a near-absolute monarchy as well.  Nationalism prolonged the existence of the British Empire by providing a constant influx of fresh recruits for occupation. The end of "communist"(Thinly veiled fascism) rule in eastern europe was not nationalist in origin. The people behind Solidarity and the reunification of germany weren't motivated by hatred of russians, but by dislike of the oppressive soviet government.

[misko27]

None of you have ever met a real nationalist have you? Only heard what you remember of Hitler's rise to power. He corrupted alot of pre-exising things. Like the swastika. Thousands of years old, no you can never use it. Hell, I have long-dead ancestors with Swastikas on their headstones.
 
Nationalism is not hating someone else. No. it is not. That is a different breed altogether. Nationalism is your country for your people. That is all. It's homogeny. It's the basic idea that a government should reflect it's people. It's the foundation of Democracy. Can you disagree with that? Can you disagree that a seperate group of people should have their own nation apart from you? Free to choose for themselves how to rule?Does it lead to unecessary conflict? Yes, it has. Does it often lead to countires factionalizing? Yes, it does. Is there something inheritly wrong in it? No more so then democracy gives power to morons, or that aristocracy leads to stagnation. It's a very large piece of human nature.
 
Also, I must wonder how you people have wrangled me onto the same sides as nationalism. I don't even support it.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Also, I must wonder how you people have wrangled me onto the same sides as nationalism. I don't even support it.

Probably something to do with you talking about all of the wonderful things that nationalism has done, like the unifications of Germany/Italy and the defeat of the Soviet Union.

[vadia]

I know that in a argument it's illegal to bring facts but
Merriam Webster
Nationalism
: loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially : a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups

Patriotism
love for or devotion to one's country

The problem with nationalism is bold underlined.

Given the definitions
All nationalists are patriots.  Not all patriots are nationalists.

Now would you stop arguing against facts?

[SealyStar]

None of you have ever met a real nationalist have you? Only heard what you remember of Hitler's rise to power. He corrupted alot of pre-exising things. Like the swastika. Thousands of years old, no you can never use it. Hell, I have long-dead ancestors with Swastikas on their headstones.

"The swastika was a thousand-year-old symbol of peace and prosperity that the Nazis ruined forever"

-Earth: The Book

[Eagle_eye]

They also ruined that cool salute, black boots, trenchcoats, and the whole notion of eugenics. Seriously, what was their problem?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

And no, the American revolution was not nationalistic. They still considered themselves British back then.

The American Revolution was not nationalistic at the start. After the empire rejected the Olive Branch Treaty and it became clear there was no reunification, the revolution turned nationalist and created the American identity.

[GreatJustice]

I think some of the "Germans" of the 1800s might disagree with you, considering the fact that the unification of Germany by the Prussians led to the squashing of liberal ideals and the imposition of a fairly brutal and aggressive state in the middle of Europe.

[SealyStar]

They also ruined that cool salute, black boots, trenchcoats, and the whole notion of eugenics. Seriously, what was their problem?

Actually, the '70s ruined trenchcoats. The Nazis just gave them "badass antihero" connotations.

[Agdune]

Yeah, living under the Prussian Kingdom/early German Empire actually wasn't that awesome, by most accounts, if you chanced to have any issues with living in what was essentially a stratocratic kingdom. In practice, the military was the state, and even though the first world war was triggered by serbian nationalists, the German Empire quite gleefully jumped in and started breaking all sorts of unwritten laws about warfare, such as not using smaller, neutral countries as battlefields and not conducting terror bombings of civilian populations (the German empire pioneered the terror bombings that became commonplace in the second world war. They used awesome Zeppelins! Which unfortunately helped ruin their image aswell...)

[Osmosis Jones]

They also ruined that cool salute, black boots, trenchcoats, and the whole notion of eugenics. Seriously, what was their problem?

They can keep that moustache though.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

They also ruined that cool salute, black boots, trenchcoats, and the whole notion of eugenics. Seriously, what was their problem?

They can keep that moustache though.

I know you ain't dissin' the Chaplin.

[misko27]

So then, since this is now derailed, it is my duty to re-rail it:

"A mathematical analysis of demographic trends and voting results by the Houston Chronicle and San Antonio Express-News finds that Texas Democrats will reach parity with Republicans at the presidential election level by 2024 if current population and electoral participation trends continue."

Wow. The republicans have really got to get on this. If they move to the right on immigration, they will cease to exist. Hell, I might even see a 3rd party candidate who the media care about in my lifetime.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Yeah, we touched on that a little earlier. The GOP has thus far not indicated that they understand the reality of the situation. Their reaction to Romney's loss is that he should have been more right-wing.

[misko27]

Yeah, we touched on that a little earlier. The GOP has thus far not indicated that they understand the reality of the situation. Their reaction to Romney's loss is that he should have been more right-wing.

I know, but it is so very, jarring, to see straight numbers.
 
Well, As things move to the left, we are likely to see more factionalism. There are many forms of liberalism, but they are pressed by the party system into a cohesive body. When democrats begin to gain consisten control of both houses, such issues will come to a head.
 
I wonder along what lines they will break?