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[Nadaka]

Guns are enablers to do more damage than would be otherwise possible.

You value personal freedom? How much do you have when someone points a gun at you? Even if you never get shot. "But they'll just use a knife or something instead!" Well yeah, but a knife is less threatening.


I'm generally anti banning enablers, but guns really don't serve any purpose I'm sympathetic to except target shooting.

They can also shoot delicious animals, and not quite so delicious people intent on doing harm to you and your loved ones.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

"But they'll just use a knife or something instead!" Well yeah, but a knife is less threatening.

Not by very much. The only thing a gun really has over a knife is range. Lethality isn't changed very much, unless we're getting into military-grade equipment. Someone will be rendered equally dead by shooting a vital organ or stabbing a major artery, and the effort involved is similar.

[Frumple]

We could seriously stand to avoid another gun derail, especially due to bait as obvious as this case is. Yes?

[Reelya]

http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~lambert/guns/archive/knives/msg00000.html

The study is in Annals of Surgery Vol 153 pp 639-649 "Civilian
Penetrating Wounds of the Abdomen" by Wilson and Sherman. It covers stab
(5% mortality) and gun shot wounds (17% mortality) to the abdomen.

5% mortality vs 17% mortality, as well as range, and any other factor making guns more lethal. There is definitely more effort needed to kill with a knife.

[kaijyuu]

They can also shoot delicious animals, and not quite so delicious people intent on doing harm to you and your loved ones.

For 1, not sympathetic. Vegetarian here, and for moral reasons

For 2, at best, you've evened the playing field. Sure, you can have a gun, but so could they. I'm unsure as to the hard numbers on violent crime, but my guess is that most is motivated by theft or personal grudges. For theft, you're best off giving them what they want, even if you do have a gun. For grudges, that's generally someone you know, and if they want to kill you they can do it without a gun.

We could seriously stand to avoid another gun derail, especially due to bait as obvious as this case is. Yes?

Yeah this is probably true. Progressive thread would make a better place if people want to continue this.

[Leafsnail]

Never bring a knife to a gun control discussion.

[mainiac]

english cops dont have guns. result is v. few cops shot (3/year iirc). never start arms race even if you can win. winners die too in arms race, they just take many down with them.

[GoombaGeek]

english cops dont have guns. result is v. few cops shot (3/year iirc). never start arms race even if you can win. winners die too in arms race, they just take many down with them.

but gunz r kewl liek in cal of duty and ak 48 lol

i tihnk all amerian shuld be gived gunz lolz

[mainiac]

i dont have keyboard right now.

[Glowcat]

Speaking of gun control, are there any gun rights groups not blatantly tied to the Republican party? Despite Obama's legislative record being far more firearm liberal than Romney who supported various gun control laws, the NRA are still soundly endorsing Romney while claiming Obama is after ALL THE GUNS.

[Montague]

I hate the republicans, but I cannot vote for the dems because of their stance on gun rights.

I believe gun ownership is the ultimate expression of trust a government can express to it's charges/subjects/citizens.

Because, it is too cool to be true.

I cannot stand the thought, I'll fight bitterly for gun rights, not that they are just silly toys rednecks use to kill themselves, like ATV's and snow machines and everything else, but that they are a symbol, an crossing point that demonstrates the line between a free society and a controlled one.

That's about it, it's such a wedge issue that no other issues matter. Sorry.

[Leafsnail]

Because it is too cool to be true?

[penguinofhonor]

I'm of the stance that a society with guns is about as well-defended from the government/military as a society without guns. This makes it pretty much completely irrelevant to how I vote.

[Wrex]

It's hardly an expression of trust, because no militia, no matter how ardent in it's belief, can compare to an MBT.

[Montague]

Well there is one thing, there is also another. Hmm.