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[RedKing]

Per capita doesn't really give much comfort to the Chinese when there are entire cities where you have to wear a mask outside or choke on coal dust. I've said it before, I'll say it again: China is going to face a massive environmental collapse if they don't reverse direction soon.

People would have said the same about London, circa 1890. Y'know...if they hadn't been so busy hailing speckled moths evolving to be black as Progress!

[Sheb]

Yeah, but you can't hide the fact that this didn't stop the US going to war. When it comes to foreign policy, there is a deep-sitted believe in stuff like "American exeptionalism" that make the US really arrogant (Look at Romney refusal to apologize for America, whatever the circumstance).

As for the amount of shit, it can clearly be quantified, even if not precisely. The fact that we're a small, insignificant country does help a lot, but we don't go around making drone strike or invading country.

[kaijyuu]

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who still likes this country.

I don't like the USA, but then again I don't like most countries. If I were to rank all the countries in the world from "best" to "worst," the USA would be (relatively) near the top. Top 50 percentile, for certain.


Ultimately, a country is just an organization. There's noting inherently good or bad about it, and it deserves no inherent respect. If it's doing something wrong, it needs to be called out on it. If it's doing something right, that just means it's doing its job. So don't get too caught up on large scale negativity; that'll continue until we have a "perfect" governmental system, which if course is impossible. Having a constantly jaded view is superior to ignoring problems, though.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

As for the amount of shit, it can clearly be quantified, even if not precisely. The fact that we're a small, insignificant country does help a lot, but we don't go around making drone strike or invading country.

Does Belgium have any reason to make drone strikes or invade nations? That's the principle question here. The US has a larger reach and context simply because of how history has played out thus far.

[GlyphGryph]

As for the amount of shit, it can clearly be quantified, even if not precisely. The fact that we're a small, insignificant country does help a lot, but we don't go around making drone strike or invading country.

Well, not anymore, anyway. Lets be honest, y'all were never particularly good at it is part of the reason, but you definitely tried a few times.

[RedKing]

As for the amount of shit, it can clearly be quantified, even if not precisely. The fact that we're a small, insignificant country does help a lot, but we don't go around making drone strike or invading country.

Well, not anymore, anyway. Lets be honest, y'all were never particularly good at it is part of the reason, but you definitely tried a few times.

Point. The Belgians weren't the most popular folks back around...oh, say 1959.

[Sheb]

1959 was fine, the real shit was back in the 19th century. But hey, I don't feel really guilty for not lobbying my government before my parent were even born.

Do the US have any reasons to make drone strikes and invade nations? Sure, you can, and we can't. But other nations are happy without intervening left and right, even large one like China.

[slaytanic]

Belgium must protect their waffles !

[MonkeyHead]

As for the amount of shit, it can clearly be quantified, even if not precisely. The fact that we're a small, insignificant country does help a lot, but we don't go around making drone strike or invading country.

Does Belgium have any reason to make drone strikes or invade nations? That's the principle question here. The US has a larger reach and context simply because of how history has played out thus far.

Many (myself included) would argue that the reasons used by the US for some of its actions over the last 25 years or so are disproportionate to the scale and nature of its responses. Might doesn't make right.

[palsch]

With regards to climate change and China, this is a paper worth reading. It follows CO2 by consumption rather than location of release. So China's exports are followed to the US and Europe. So while China is the biggest emitter (and it's coal plants are probably the major issue in any serious global climate policy) those emissions are still primarily fuelled by western consumption of goods.

It would be really interesting to see a debate on environmental issues in this election. I don't believe Romney has a public energy/climate policy yet, but he has taken various denialist positions in recent months. Be fun to see him pinned down.

[GlyphGryph]

Many (myself included) would argue that the reasons used by the US for some of its actions over the last 25 years or so are disproportionate to the scale and nature of its responses. Might doesn't make right.

No one is saying they are right, simply that most other "peaceful" countries would be doing the same in the same position (and, in fact, have). Ufortunately. Might doesn't make right, but power leads to arrogance, and arrogance, often enough, to aggression.

[SalmonGod]

I don't like the U.S..  I haven't since shortly after I began paying attention to the world around me.  As soon as I began making a conscious effort to think for myself, I quite clearly saw all the crap about liberty, justice, and the american dream as shallow lip service.  I've never seen the overall effect of the behavior of our institutions (governmental or just originating) or our general culture as being anything but contrary to those ideals, and most of the time that seems to be intentional.  We're a country built upon a genocidal displacement, and I dont think anything's really changed.  For the longest time, I hated this place but still accepted the notion that most of the rest of the world is worse, because this idea was beaten relentlessly into my head on a daily basis through my entire childhood.  It took a while, but that delusion has been completely erased after talking to people from around the world every single day for the last 16 years.  For a few years now, I've been at the point where I would take any opportunity to move to almost any other developed nation in the world in a heartbeat.

[GlyphGryph]

Truth be told, the rest of the world isn't worse, but it's not really all that much better either.

(Still not changing my own plans to get New Zealand citizenship, but that's because the country stole my heart moreso than wanting to escape the US)

Salmon, where have you lived in the US, anyway?

[SalmonGod]

Truth be told, the rest of the world isn't worse, but it's not really all that much better either.

There are plenty of places where at least I wouldn't have to feel like stable employment is a matter of life and death, or worry that single temporary medical condition could financially ruin my entire life.  There are still more places where people don't have to fight tooth and nail with their employers for permission to raise their children.  I've had to get into a near shouting match with my upper manager before about my kid's diabetic issues.  This is potentially life-threatening stuff, but she couldn't understand why that was more important than work 

Salmon, where have you lived in the US, anyway?

Born in Wisconsin.  I lived there until I was 4, and all my relatives are still there.  Then a year in Indianapolis.  Then a couple years in Illinios.  Then from age 7+, I've lived in Indiana.

Edit:  And I'm also aware that exploiting anything and everything is basically the story of civilization as a whole, but damn does America take it to dizzying, unprecedented extremes.

[GlyphGryph]

I have a feeling that at the very least you'd be happier in New England.

Anyways, sure, some other countries will have those things. But they'll have other things that are worse. Overall, they may be somewhat better. They may be a LOT better in the ways that are most important to you. Just cautioning that no country is perfect, and the problem you complain about (politicians screwing over the people and cozying up with corporations) happens pretty much everywhere.