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[freeformschooler]

Gonna respond to stuff tomorrow but the puzzle component thing is something I really like/hate from a GMing standpoint. I've never been able to do puzzles well before now, and the whole potentially-illustrated aspect of it definitely adds more options.

[Parsely]

There hasn't been enough Freeform in my life as of late. Why I haven't posted on the thread before is beyond me.

[freeformschooler]

There hasn't been enough Freeform in my life as of late. Why I haven't posted on the thread before is beyond me.

Maybe because it's a really old thread for a silly game that died a long time ago (even though I still always want to start it up again).

This reminds me of another idea: Learnable item abilities. They were in FF... uh, the one with the monkey tail guy.

Anyway, the point is you get an item, let's say a sword. And on this sword is the Critical Strike Passive, or the Wind Slash Active, or whatever. While this item is equipped, you gain access to said ability.

But while said item is equipped/whenever you use said ability, you gain experience in it. Eventually this means you master the ability and can use it without needing the item any more.

The obvious problems are that it can be kind of gamey (I know I'd equip items based solely on whether I could learn an ability from them and not whether they or their taught abilities were in any way useful) and that it's moving away from the simplicity I assume you were going for. Still, I like the notion of learning things permanently like that.

I adore that system, too, but the main fear is that it's far too much book-keeping to do it in an EXP way. Instead, I would probably do it the way Weirdsound does it in his ISG: "survive a number of combat encounters to have this item level up!" Here's an example character (you'll be seeing her a lot here) with this system in place + flat:

Spoiler: Miranda X-2 (Weapon Abilities, Flat) (click to show/hide)

Name: Miranda X-2
Image:
Bio: Miranda X-2 is an augmented Human sent into FFS for a trial run of Project "UNNAMED."
Equipment: Normal Clothes, Electric Hand Cannon
Active Abilities: Thunderbolt
Passive Abilities:
Statistics:
Health Part 7
Magick Part 4
Aggresssion 3
Fortitude 4
Awareness 5
Nimble 5
Brilliance 1
Spirit 3
Allure 4
Companionship 3

This is about as simple as I could make this system, and it brings up the issue of all characters being functionally identical outside of stats. If I was going to do this, I would definitely restrict item types by class. Like so!

Spoiler: Miranda X-2 (Class, Weapon Abilities, Flat) (click to show/hide)

Name: Miranda X-2
Image:
Class: Quickshot
Bio: Miranda X-2 is an augmented Human sent into FFS for a trial run of Project "UNNAMED."
Equipment: Normal Clothes, Electric Hand Cannon
Active Abilities: Thunderbolt
Passive Abilities: Run and Gun
Statistics:
Health Part 7
Magick Part 4
Aggresssion 3
Fortitude 4
Awareness 5
Nimble 5
Brilliance 1
Spirit 3
Allure 4
Companionship 3

After a good night's sleep, I've decided not to compact Active Abilities into "this is your sword" or even use Ability Slots. The whole idea just left a bad taste in my mouth for some reason. Gameplay's more fun when you have options!

This is How I Find Loot Idea: Oh, oh God. Okay, here's my idea for this. Each character's loot-finding ability is linked to a specific type of puzzle component. Maybe it's pushing really heavy boulders or creating wind storms. Either way, every shard would have multiple puzzles that could only be solved using certain combinations of these abilities. Basically, when you choose this, you choose what type of video game puzzle you're good at solving

I'd say "Oh, oh God" sums up my reaction to this fairly well.

Also what happens if we get five block pushers in one party? :x

Oh god those block puzzles that need to be done quickly because they reset after a certain number of moves/time. DAMN IT, answered my own question.

Five block pushers likely wouldn't be a problem with the whole switching parties on- and off-base thing. In the scenario it did happen, those block pushers are going to have usefulness outside pushing blocks. But I will say you answered your own question pretty well

Here's what the character sheet might like like with Puzzle Abilities on it:

Spoiler: Miranda X-2 (Class, Weapon Abilities, Puzzle Abilities, Flat) (click to show/hide)

Name: Miranda X-2
Image:
Class: Quickshot
Bio: Miranda X-2 is an augmented Human sent into FFS for a trial run of Project "UNNAMED."
Equipment: Normal Clothes, Electric Hand Cannon
Active Abilities: Thunderbolt
Passive Abilities: Run and Gun
Puzzle Ability: Take Aim
Statistics:
Health Part 7
Magick Part 4
Aggresssion 3
Fortitude 4
Awareness 5
Nimble 5
Brilliance 1
Spirit 3
Allure 4
Companionship 3

Yes. YES. I can feel it starting to come together.

Combat is done by directly comparing Power scores + modifiers. Power is accrued by braiding flowers in your hair (or hair-equivalent.)  Modifiers are determined by the color and species of the flowers in your hair. Color provides flat bonuses if certain preconditions are met (rainy weather activates Blue, speaking in a British accent activates Off-White, etc) Species of flowers involves an Elemental Rock Paper Scissors mechanic where favorable matchups add dice to your Power score (so Power + modifiers + d6 or whatever.) After all is said and done the flowers explode at one another until somebody's hair has no more flowers in it and they DIE. Then the winner recovers any usable flowers and moves on to the next victim.

...you DID say horseshit, and there's very nearly a system in there!

Now, here's an interesting alternate class system idea. Instead of having weapons or class changes or experience points, EACH character/class has a specific item type that grants them abilities. Variations on these Class Items would be ridiculously hard to craft/come by, but the players would seek them out anyway.

Spoiler: Miranda X-2 (Class Items, Flat) (click to show/hide)

Name: Miranda X-2
Image:
Class Item: Power Core
Bio: Miranda X-2 is an augmented Human sent into FFS for a trial run of Project "UNNAMED."
Equipment: Standard-issue Core, Frozen Core
Active Abilities: Pew Pew, Ice Shot
Passive Abilities: Charge Shot
Puzzle Ability Take Aim, Freeze
Statistics:
Health Part 7
Magick Part 4
Aggresssion 3
Fortitude 4
Awareness 5
Nimble 5
Brilliance 1
Spirit 3
Allure 4
Companionship 3

I'm not particularly enthralled with this, but it does resemble Monk's idea a little. The game is really starting to shape up to something playable.

[IronyOwl]

Yeah, not as fond of the class item thing. For one thing, it's kind of sad when you can't get better at something by doing it, and are completely reliant on what items you have equipped instead.

For another, I'm not sure how I feel about items for each player being completely unique. I mean, if you find a Gun and only Gun-Types can use it, then even if there's only one Gun-Type it still seems like they're filling a niche. If you find a Power Core and only one character can ever use Power Cores... I dunno, feels a bit weird to me. Similar to if everyone used a sword but swords had their true wielders clearly labeled or something.

It also gives fewer (even if only in theory) options, since you can never have two Sword-Types figuring out which Swords they each want.


Also, as for raw mechanics- I assume this bears at least a passing resemblance to A Change of Scenery?

[freeformschooler]

Also, as for raw mechanics- I assume this bears at least a passing resemblance to A Change of Scenery?

That's Flat or Flat Damage System like Dex used. Also known as Daros Support System.

[freeformschooler]

Oh yeah, I forgot to say: I need some ideas for overall visualization. This is the PRIMARY COMPONENT OF THE GAME'S WORKLOAD. Some options, but certainly not all!

Text view: What you're looking at now. Everything is represented only using text. This is intensely difficult to represent the stuff I have in mind with. Also boring. 0% workload increase!
ASCII VIEW: #.D..@..# Also boring. 5-10% workload increase!
Tiles: Like this. 20-30% workload increase. Depends on how elaborate the whole thing is.
Top down: Warrens style. You know the drill. Not too hard to represent much of anything in! 30-60% workload increase. Drastic variance depending on how many details there are.
Side view: This kind of deal. Tends to look a lot prettier than the other styles when I've got all the details and colors in. Some minor strengths and weaknesses over top down. 30-60% workload increase.

[Chink]

How does text view with accompanying top/side view when necessary sound? It seems to me that text should work just fine for combat, but for puzzles, it's nice to have an image to help with visualizing the whole thing.

[freeformschooler]

How does text view with accompanying top/side view when necessary sound? It seems to me that text should work just fine for combat, but for puzzles, it's nice to have an image to help with visualizing the whole thing.

I don't think the game mechanics as I have them now are suited to that kind of thing. It's certainly possible, though. If I did text view, I would probably prefer to go all the way, but that presents great problems in visualizing puzzles and stuff. The only other thing I could think of would be first-person overviews for puzzles and stuff.

[IronyOwl]

That fish...

I think I might prefer side view, though that could be influenced by the sample side view looking better than the sample top-down. Unfortunately, I suspect everything (especially puzzles) might work a lot better in top-down or tiled.

I wouldn't particularly mind tiled if it kept the workload down, but it doesn't seem like it'd be as flavorful as most other options.

[freeformschooler]

I wouldn't particularly mind tiled if it kept the workload down, but it doesn't seem like it'd be as flavorful as most other options.

I don't know, it definitely has flavor if I work at it. That said, that's the MAXIMUM detail/life I can currently wring out of tiled without like putting top-down characters on the tiles or going too crazy with stuff. The image there would definitely be the full 30% workload increase if not a little more.

It's a constant struggle between workload vs effort because most players seem to appreciate More Updates whereas I literally will not read a story that doesn't at least put in a certain amount of effort for many reasons (mostly time and investment). That's why I provide stuff like this for all games: because I wouldn't even read my own work otherwise.

[IronyOwl]

Huh. Well, at least now I know why I don't see you in many games.

Would there be any benefits to switching between styles as the situation warrants? Or would that just mean you have to make assets for three different situations?


I'm generally in favor of at least a full-scale image or two just for visualization purposes, but I don't know that I'd mind being permanently or semi-permanently in tile mode otherwise. Kind of like how sprite games are arguably improved by having a portrait or something, but walking around as a little blob isn't a problem or anything.

[freeformschooler]

fish

fish

Huh. Well, at least now I know why I don't see you in many games.

Would there be any benefits to switching between styles as the situation warrants? Or would that just mean you have to make assets for three different situations?


I'm generally in favor of at least a full-scale image or two just for visualization purposes, but I don't know that I'd mind being permanently or semi-permanently in tile mode otherwise. Kind of like how sprite games are arguably improved by having a portrait or something, but walking around as a little blob isn't a problem or anything.

For the first thing (switching styles on the fly), it's one of those things that's a bad idea for reasons hard to articulate. Half my days are bad days, and on those days, I don't want to draw new assets all day, I just want to throw some things around, call it an image and write the rest out.

For the second thing, yeah, that's definitely something that could (very easily) happen. It definitely would be lots of fun to see how I could push the limits of a tile-based system on my good days and still be able to merely move icons around on not-so-good ones.

[IronyOwl]

hue

But yeah, that'd probably be my vote, then.

[Chink]

But yeah, that'd probably be my vote, then.

Same here.

[Powder Miner]

Yeah, I'd vote for that.