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[Deep Waters]

@Deep Waters:
I think you're overthinking things a bit. Eko will know we are a mage as soon as we cast the spell to destroy the curse, if he hasn't already figured it out. If we want to continue to pose as a Life mage (and I think we should, at least for now) then being able to passively detect vitality is not something we need need to hide.

That said, getting Eko to cast an Alarm on a twig which will make a minor ward when the twig is broken would be a very sound precaution. If something bad happens, Omo or Eko can break the twig and make us invisible to the curse spirit.

Technically, we passively detect Necromantic Energy, not Vitality. Furthermore, I'm not really worried about just being outed as someone who can magic (though there's really no logical reason for us to hide it, not when we're so adamant about helping with the curse)-- I'm worried about displaying abilities that could only belong to a Necromancer before we're ready (if we're ever ready). As I outlined in my first post, I'm very much for revealing ourselves as a Necromancer (not just as a mage) at any point once we enter the Forest proper, whether before we defeat the curse or after, since it's pretty much required for us to convince him to join "the party"-- and he'd be so incredibly useful as a companion. (I actually wanted Elana to join too because I ship it, but I didn't even bother to suggest it because there wasn't really much of a chance we could've convinced her to come with us at that point in time-- not with the way she talked about Necromancy. Maybe if we meet up with her again after we make a name for ourselves as "good people," so to speak...) My concern is letting Eko come to his own conclusions before we can explain ourselves.

That said, you may be right about being able to pass off our ability to see Necromantic Energy as the ability to see Vitality. It allows us to cast a few spells without incurring suspicion while only being a little more risky, so there's no more reason to forgo it than there is for my suggestion. Matter of taste, I suppose-- I'd rather not directly lie to Eko, not when he's so obviously being presented as a potential companion (to put it meta-wise). Suggesting that he serve as a kind of lookout with an Alarm-triggered ward doesn't require lying, unlike passing ourselves off as a Life mage.

As for the method of Alarm-warding, if we can successfully pull off the Life mage deception, it doesn't really matter which one we choose, so I'm all for it either way. Though, if the stick approach is viable, it might be considered the Order equivalent of our Necromantic experimentation and give him a little xp, heh. Also, the more I think about it, the more I'm realizing how useful a Minor Abjuration Alarm grenade would be... I'm almost tempted to call it OP.

((I've been playing the Socratic equivalent of Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney the entire time I've been writing these things; I think it's starting to show))

[Grek]

I don't think it's particularly likely that Eko will make the leap from "Nym can detect vitality, magic and necromancy. She can also break necromantic curses." to "Nym is a necromancer!", so we should be fine.

[Harbingerjm]

Also, uneducated Life mage? We already know that leaving a mage uneducated can have some disastrous consequences; Eko would surely know that as well. While fairly logical, there's no reason that he'd know that See Vitality is a common spell among Life Mages and then subsequently assume that we're a novice Life Mage-- he would at least ask us to explain ourselves. After all, any explanation for why we hid our status as mages won't mesh well with our determination to help with Aloclesno.

IIRC, pretty much all of the elves learn at least a few basic spells, See Vitality among them. Hell, even we can cast it, and that's with the cross-school learning barrier.

[GlyphGryph]

Hm... I wonder if the reason the Order mages haven't found the creatures yet is because they were looking for undead and the creatures... aren't...

It would be great to set up an Alarm ward before luring out the creatures - We should at least be able to tell if they set off the alarm.

[Deep Waters]

Also, uneducated Life mage? We already know that leaving a mage uneducated can have some disastrous consequences; Eko would surely know that as well. While fairly logical, there's no reason that he'd know that See Vitality is a common spell among Life Mages and then subsequently assume that we're a novice Life Mage-- he would at least ask us to explain ourselves. After all, any explanation for why we hid our status as mages won't mesh well with our determination to help with Aloclesno.

IIRC, pretty much all of the elves learn at least a few basic spells, See Vitality among them. Hell, even we can cast it, and that's with the cross-school learning barrier.

I believe that Sense Vitality is the spell all elves learn, not See Vitality. Sense Vitality is a general spell. Besides, See Vitality is a necromantic spell for us. Thus, it's the spell that's cross-school, not us. Eko also won't necessarily know that all elves learn magic to some extent, either-- though it is a potential excuse.

Hm... I wonder if the reason the Order mages haven't found the creatures yet is because they were looking for undead and the creatures... aren't...

It would be great to set up an Alarm ward before luring out the creatures - We should at least be able to tell if they set off the alarm.

That's... an interesting possibility, actually. I'm not sure what else they could be, though-- I can't imagine what it could be animated from if it's a golem, and we don't know enough to suggest anything else. Furthermore, I don't believe we actually know how divination works in that context-- would they attempt to be looking for Undead, or Necromantic Ener-... oh. Ouch. It would be so bad if divinations did the latter, in the context of my last post. Not really much we can do if it does, though-- there's no logical reason to ask Eko not to cast any divinations.

[Harbingerjm]

Also, uneducated Life mage? We already know that leaving a mage uneducated can have some disastrous consequences; Eko would surely know that as well. While fairly logical, there's no reason that he'd know that See Vitality is a common spell among Life Mages and then subsequently assume that we're a novice Life Mage-- he would at least ask us to explain ourselves. After all, any explanation for why we hid our status as mages won't mesh well with our determination to help with Aloclesno.

IIRC, pretty much all of the elves learn at least a few basic spells, See Vitality among them. Hell, even we can cast it, and that's with the cross-school learning barrier.

I believe that Sense Vitality is the spell all elves learn, not See Vitality. Sense Vitality is a general spell. Besides, See Vitality is a necromantic spell for us. Thus, it's the spell that's cross-school, not us. Eko also won't necessarily know that all elves learn magic to some extent, either-- though it is a potential excuse.

Yes, that was a mix-up of names on my end, but it changes precisely nothing about my point. IIRC we already told Eko what we learned by it earlier, so he should already know we can cast it.

Hm... I wonder if the reason the Order mages haven't found the creatures yet is because they were looking for undead and the creatures... aren't...

It would be great to set up an Alarm ward before luring out the creatures - We should at least be able to tell if they set off the alarm.

That's... an interesting possibility, actually. I'm not sure what else they could be, though-- I can't imagine what it could be animated from if it's a golem, and we don't know enough to suggest anything else. Furthermore, I don't believe we actually know how divination works in that context-- would they attempt to be looking for Undead, or Necromantic Ener-... oh. Ouch. It would be so bad if divinations did the latter, in the context of my last post. Not really much we can do if it does, though-- there's no logical reason to ask Eko not to cast any divinations.

Alternatively, they might have missed it because "Detect Undead- X MP - Detects the presence of zombies animated by a Necromancer" is rather specific wording. Possibly too specific...
And we have a perfectly logical explanation, we already know our spell works but have no reason to believe his does, he needs his mana for wards, and the creature in the forest was made to deal with an army from the Empire of Order after the Elves had been defeated- it may well have counter-measures against Order spells, or an ability to detect and avoid them, but there would be no reason to give it the equivalent against Life.

[GlyphGryph]

We could quite easily mention that from stuff we learned back home, historically the undead weren't the only thing Necromancers could make or do. We honestly don't know what else this might be, but it might be worth bringing up the option if that could help.

Also theres still the very realy possibility that these things were somehow the souls of the children and not the cause of their condition - we need to be ready for that possbility. We know we can read the thoughts and memories of necromantic beings now so our primary goal is lure these things out and do... that to them I think. Learn about them anyway. I strongly suspect they are just a symptom rather than the cause... Which mayy be prolematic to us since the cause could still sneak up on us.

I wonder... necromantic energy but blocked by obstacles... doesnt seem to effect plants and animals... leaves the body alive but mindles...

We KNOW necromancy supports sliding a persons mind into another being. Weve done it plenty of times to our creations. What if weve been thinking about this all wrong? What if we arent looking for a ghost but an animal, and the curse doesnt kill people it just moves their consciousness to a different body?

We also know Necromancers have some sort of dream power or consciousness projection - maybe they have some general mind control and manipulation powers on top of it?

[thoushaltcallmelars]

I suggest we tell Eko in a way that won't get us speared in the face. He needs to know that the zombies are being ordered to go past the wards, so the wards won't stop them.

Of course, this is really just me PTWing, but I didn't want to just say "PTW" and be done - that accomplishes nothing.

[Travisplo]

Perhaps tell him that we are an elf, trained in the ways of destroying necromancy. If he says that maybe we are a necromancer, ask if he's ever heard of an elf necromancer, and elves natural affinity with life magic, and that you don't think it's possible for an elf to be a necromancer.

[Travisplo]

Bump.

[wer6]

Good idea travis, +1

[Angle]

We Demand Necromancy!

[Travisplo]

Bump all day, bump all night, yeah this thread needs a bump alright!

[Angle]

now now, let's not spam the dude. We'll just sit here...waiting.

[Travisplo]

What? It needed a bump.