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Author Topic: Whats the difference between mail shirts and breastplates?  (Read 16244 times)

AzuredreamsXT

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Whats the difference between mail shirts and breastplates?
« on: November 18, 2011, 06:40:16 am »

The wiki says mail shirts cover more of the body, does that mean they are superior to breastplates? Or do breastplates protect the areas they do cover better?

Same thing with high boots/low boots?
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hudders

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Re: Whats the difference between mail shirts and breastplates?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2011, 06:52:23 am »

Mail shirts cover the upper arms and throat, but breastplates have a higher armor value.

You can wear both. You can actually wear multiple mail shirts, but only one breastplate.

High boots cover more of the leg than low boots.
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Alastar

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Re: Whats the difference between mail shirts and breastplates?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2011, 08:30:10 am »

Rigidity is also modeled, but I'm not sure how this affects gameplay.
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Dsarker

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Re: Whats the difference between mail shirts and breastplates?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2011, 08:37:04 am »

Rigidity is also modeled, but I'm not sure how this affects gameplay.

Blunt weapons do more damage to rigid armour.
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Putnam

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Re: Whats the difference between mail shirts and breastplates?
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2011, 09:32:39 am »

Mail shirts not only cover upper arms and throat, but facial features, too.

Newbunkle

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Re: Whats the difference between mail shirts and breastplates?
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2011, 01:43:02 pm »

Good if you want to avoid a beardectomy.
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evileeyore

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Re: Whats the difference between mail shirts and breastplates?
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2011, 05:05:40 pm »

Blunt weapons do more damage to rigid armour.

That makes no sense at all.
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Mitchewawa

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Re: Whats the difference between mail shirts and breastplates?
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2011, 05:07:33 pm »

Blunt weapons do more damage to rigid armour.

That makes no sense at all.

It does so.

Imagine you have a sheet of metal and a sheet of leather. Hit them both with a hammer. Which one dents?
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Delta Foxtrot

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Re: Whats the difference between mail shirts and breastplates?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2011, 05:11:40 pm »

One of my speardwarves refuses to wear both a breastplate and a mailshirt at the same time. I order him to wear both, he picks one. I order him to wear only breastplate, he wears it. I then order him to wear mailshirt over it, he doesn't do it (though he may change his breastplate to mailshirt). Is there something I'm doing wrong or is the military system bugging? Could the dwarf maybe be too small to wear both of them at the same time?
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Dsarker

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Re: Whats the difference between mail shirts and breastplates?
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2011, 05:14:01 pm »

Breastplate goes over mail shirt.
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UltraValican

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Re: Whats the difference between mail shirts and breastplates?
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2011, 05:14:48 pm »

One of my speardwarves refuses to wear both a breastplate and a mailshirt at the same time. I order him to wear both, he picks one. I order him to wear only breastplate, he wears it. I then order him to wear mailshirt over it, he doesn't do it (though he may change his breastplate to mailshirt). Is there something I'm doing wrong or is the military system bugging? Could the dwarf maybe be too small to wear both of them at the same time?
Put on the shirt before the plate.
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CapnUrist

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Re: Whats the difference between mail shirts and breastplates?
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2011, 05:16:58 pm »

One of my speardwarves refuses to wear both a breastplate and a mailshirt at the same time. I order him to wear both, he picks one. I order him to wear only breastplate, he wears it. I then order him to wear mailshirt over it, he doesn't do it (though he may change his breastplate to mailshirt). Is there something I'm doing wrong or is the military system bugging? Could the dwarf maybe be too small to wear both of them at the same time?

You have to assign the mail shirt first. Nothing will be worn over a "shaped" piece of armor, which includes all plate armor pieces such as breastplates, greaves, gauntlets, high/low boots, and helms.

The wiki says mail shirts cover more of the body, does that mean they are superior to breastplates? Or do breastplates protect the areas they do cover better?

Same thing with high boots/low boots?

A mail shirt is a very long shirt of chainmail, including sleeves and ends around the knees. A breastplate is a shaped plate armor that covers the torso and maybe shoulders. Plate armor is more protective, but gives way to blunt force.

Same thing with high and low boots; low boots stop at the ankle, while high boots go up to the knee or so.

While it sounds like more coverage is always better, remember that more armor, more metal, on your dwarf will slow him down considerably, unless he is a legendary Armor User.
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Telgin

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Re: Whats the difference between mail shirts and breastplates?
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2011, 06:08:28 pm »

Blunt weapons do more damage to rigid armour.

That makes no sense at all.

It does so.

Imagine you have a sheet of metal and a sheet of leather. Hit them both with a hammer. Which one dents?

Yeah, but the leather gives in easier than the plate.  In reality this is so complicated I doubt there's any realistic, simple answer.  To me it makes more sense that solid plate is better against blunt attacks too, since it at least resists the attack, whereas flexible armor goes with the flow, so to speak.

Has there been any science done on this?  I'm having a hard time imagining how you'd set that up to be a fair comparison between mail shirts and breastplates though, given the difference in coverage.  Perhaps modding them both to give the same coverage before testing.
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assimilateur

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Re: Whats the difference between mail shirts and breastplates?
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2011, 06:15:23 pm »

Which one dents?

We're more concerned with what's under the armor. And as far as I know, both in DF and in real life, mail helps very little against blunt weapons.


Is there something I'm doing wrong or is the military system bugging?

So far I had no trouble with getting them to wear both mail and a breastplate, but every member of my militia reserves three boots and four gauntlets; thus I have to order 150% and 200% of either items forged, respectively, to properly equip everyone.

Perhaps you're dealing with a bug I have yet to experience, but here's a couple of things to check for:
1. I've always used the "exact matches" setting in uniforms. Perhaps if you used the default setting ("partial") a dwarf wearing just one piece of torso armor says "close enough" and doesn't bother getting more. It's unlikely but it can't hurt to check.
2. The default setting is "over clothing". Set it to "replace clothing". If they are trying to wear mail shirts and breastplates over togas, coats, dresses, whatever, then this might be too much (but I think just one each of shirt, mail shirt and breastplate would work).


To me it makes more sense that solid plate is better against blunt attacks too, since it at least resists the attack, whereas flexible armor goes with the flow, so to speak.

To be fair, I think you'd actually need both plate and soft (padded) armor to help you against blunt weapons. Having your breastplate deform into your torso seems hardly better than being hit with a hammer itself.
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Darvi

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Re: Whats the difference between mail shirts and breastplates?
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2011, 06:43:29 pm »

Which one dents?

We're more concerned with what's under the armor. And as far as I know, both in DF and in real life, mail helps very little against blunt weapons.
Exactly.

That's also why adamantine chainmail is wasted against bludgeoning.
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