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Author Topic: Two-handed weapons  (Read 2441 times)

Urist McDwarfFortress

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Two-handed weapons
« on: November 04, 2011, 07:49:50 pm »

I thought it might be fun to make a squad of halberdiers.  I had several halberds lying around, so I made a new squad and set their equipment to have no shield, but otherwise armored as normal and then told them to pick up a halberd.  No one got a weapon.  So I assigned them each a specific halberd.  Again, nothing. 

I figured it must have something to do with the halberd being two-handed, so I assigned a few to have various other two-handed weapons, and some to have various foreign one-handed weapons.  The guys who were assigned one-handed weapons went over and picked them up just fine, but the ones assigned two-handed weapons just stand around empty-handed.

Is there some trick to getting them to use a two-handed weapon?  Or is it just impossible?
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Telgin

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Re: Two-handed weapons
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2011, 08:03:21 pm »

I think this has something to do with the weapons being too large.  I read that two handed swords were like this.

Supposedly it's based on the size of the creature whether or not it can pick up a given weapon.  A few dwarves are naturally large enough to hold two handed swords, but most aren't.  I'd wager it's a similar problem with the halberds.
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trees

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Re: Two-handed weapons
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2011, 08:07:41 pm »

Halberds in vanilla have a minimum size of 62500, which only the very largest of dwarves (it would take maximum height and broadness, I think) will be able to use.
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Urist McDwarfFortress

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Re: Two-handed weapons
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2011, 08:09:24 pm »

Ok.  So how do you find out how big a dwarf is?  I found one guy who was strong, muscular, and fat :P but he still couldn't hold one.
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trees

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Re: Two-handed weapons
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2011, 08:17:51 pm »

I forget the exact text strings, but it'll be something to the effect of "(s)he is extremely tall" etc. Attributes like strength or agility don't affect it.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Two-handed weapons
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2011, 08:35:57 pm »

You COULD always mod halberds to not need the wielders to be so big...
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i2amroy

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Re: Two-handed weapons
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2011, 08:57:07 pm »

Halberds in vanilla have a minimum size of 62500, which only the very largest of dwarves (it would take maximum height and broadness, I think) will be able to use.
I believe someone discovered that if a dwarf is "rippling with fat and muscles" then they only need either height or broadness to be at the max as long as the other is also in the second highest group. Even so your chances of finding a dwarf that is able to wield them is still like 1 in 50, and that is just the dwarves that are counted as "rippling with fat and muscles".
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Aspgren

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Re: Two-handed weapons
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2011, 09:16:36 pm »

I get to thinking about mount and blade: warband.

Why? Because the weapons have all these modifiers. Chipped, rusted, cracked, shortened, tempered, heavy, thick ... a whole world of customization and individuality to the different items.

 Wouldn't it be nice? Tell the weaponsmith to "shorten that halberd" or "sharpen that sword" .. "repair that helmet"
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Poindexterity

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Re: Two-handed weapons
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2011, 10:49:45 pm »

I get to thinking about mount and blade: warband.

Why? Because the weapons have all these modifiers. Chipped, rusted, cracked, shortened, tempered, heavy, thick ... a whole world of customization and individuality to the different items.

 Wouldn't it be nice? Tell the weaponsmith to "shorten that halberd" or "sharpen that sword" .. "repair that helmet"
it COULD be, but it might also get really irritating having swords that dull and helmets that break.
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Telgin

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Re: Two-handed weapons
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2011, 11:22:33 pm »

You COULD always mod halberds to not need the wielders to be so big...

Agreed here.  As I've said before in another thread, there should reasonably be versions of these large weapons for dwarves.  A two handed sword sounds more dwarfy than a one handed sword, after all, so why wouldn't there be a dwarf sized version?
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Grumbledwarfskin

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Re: Two-handed weapons
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2011, 12:38:18 am »

According to the calculations I made based on the raws, about 3 of 49 dwarves, on average, should theoretically be large enough to wield a halberd in one hand. The number that can wield a halberd should be significantly larger, so I'm surprised to hear that you're having trouble finding even one dwarf that can wield a halberd two-handed.

Spoiler: calculations (click to show/hide)

So almost one in three dwarves (32.7%) should be able to wield a halberd in two hands.

I'm not sure whether it's easy to see who's large enough, there's some sort of lottery involved in deciding what personal appearance modifiers are worth mentioning in the description, and the size ones don't always win that lottery, so you may not be able to tell who's large enough until you order them to pick up weapons, since other personal appearance features could be more important to the dwarf's overall appearance, it might not be mentioned that they're large or small.

Now, if strength plays a role in weight, you might well need to strength train them first, because a lot of dwarves start out as weaklings, which would mean they'd likely be getting negative percentages from their low strength numbers, and you might need to get their strength up to average before they'd reach the ability to wield a large weapon.

Some have suggested that fatness may also play a role, but I have no idea how you influence fatness, or whether fatness in descriptions is one way that "broadness" makes it into physical descriptions. If dwarves start out lean, or become lean in the process of increasing their strength, and fatness is a factor in weight (which I haven't seen confirmed yet), then it might be more difficult to get them properly prepared to wield large weapons.
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Aspgren

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Re: Two-handed weapons
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2011, 01:47:51 pm »

I get to thinking about mount and blade: warband.

Why? Because the weapons have all these modifiers. Chipped, rusted, cracked, shortened, tempered, heavy, thick ... a whole world of customization and individuality to the different items.

 Wouldn't it be nice? Tell the weaponsmith to "shorten that halberd" or "sharpen that sword" .. "repair that helmet"
it COULD be, but it might also get really irritating having swords that dull and helmets that break.

definitely irritating if you have to do it manually. repairing / resharpening could be automated while modifications should be custom choice.
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TerryDactyl

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Re: Two-handed weapons
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2011, 06:17:03 pm »

I am also working on equipping foreign weaponry. I found out that daggers have such a low contact area that relatively unskilled wielders have very little trouble cutting 'to the heart of the matter'.

But I've really got to dig to find someone who can swing that copper two-handed sword I've got lying around. I could just feed it to the mechanics, sure... but this is more fun.

Here are some strings I collected from my 86 dwarves:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Grumbledwarfskin

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Re: Two-handed weapons
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2011, 06:39:37 pm »

Hmm...that last one sounds promising.

The "weak" "very weak" etc. are attribute values, they'll show up regardless of whether their strength/weakness is notable enough to make it into their physical description, but only if they aren't in the range of strength/toughness/agility/healing rate that's considered "normal".
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TerryDactyl

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Re: Two-handed weapons
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2011, 06:41:57 pm »

Sadly my massively broad, lardy dwarf refused the oversized blade, as did those who were incredibly muscular. Maybe 'broadness' connotes 'short' as well as 'big'?
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