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Author Topic: Hard lesson learned: cave-ins destroy floors.  (Read 1081 times)

TrombonistAndrew

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Hard lesson learned: cave-ins destroy floors.
« on: October 07, 2011, 07:01:21 pm »

At least, as far as I could tell. There I was working on my fortress. I had built an entryway to my caverns in the middle of a river fork, to prepare to build up a nice little fortress in the middle which would have the sole purpose of being able to raise bridges, create a mote from the rivers, and fire ballistae and catapults at invaders at leisure. This involved tunneling a stair straight down in the middle (during winter) along with walls to keep the river out, and right below the river I built an extension from the stairwell to create some underground farming. Lo and behold, I deconstruct a bit of construction siting right above the river, and the dwarves accidentally deconstruct it such that one block or so caves in. Apparently through the river. Apparently making a hole in the river floor. Apparently letting water into those underground fields I dug out. Setting up a fortress-wide flood which I couldn't contain.

I had tried to set up a system of dealing with a potential flood that comes down the stairs, and I think that would have been fine. Having the breach happen outside of that central stairwell was catastrophic. I decided to abandon before all of my dwarves drowned.

I try not to be overly maniacal.
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Varnifane

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Re: Hard lesson learned: cave-ins destroy floors.
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2011, 07:04:18 pm »

Yeah, the first time that happened to me I was like..."wha?"

It didn't punch all the way through it did get my top three soil layers that I had hollowed out for stockpiles and massive farming operations (before I realized I could feed 110 dwarves from one 5x5 plot.
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ASCIt

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Re: Hard lesson learned: cave-ins destroy floors.
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2011, 07:13:36 pm »

I've lost many a miner like this, to be honest...
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krenshala

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Re: Hard lesson learned: cave-ins destroy floors.
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2011, 08:48:41 pm »

The wiki has the details, but iirc the only thing that will stop the cave in is a native stone/soil block that has not been dug out under the tiles that are collapsing.  I don't remember for sure, but I want to say even constructed walls would collapse if a cavein landed on them (though I hope I'm wrong on that ;) ).
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Quote from: Haspen
Quote from: phoenixuk
Zepave Dawnhogs the Butterfly of Vales the Marsh Titan ... was taken out by a single novice axedwarf and his pet war kitten. Long Live Domas Etasastesh Adilloram, slayer of the snow butterfly!
Doesn't quite have the ring of heroics to it...
Mother: "...and after the evil snow butterfly was defeated, Domas and his kitten lived happily ever after!"
Kids: "Yaaaay!"

ASCIt

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Re: Hard lesson learned: cave-ins destroy floors.
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2011, 08:50:15 pm »

I know constructed ramps disappear, that's how I create pits with no exits that my miners can actually escape from.
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Mitchewawa

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Re: Hard lesson learned: cave-ins destroy floors.
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2011, 08:57:11 pm »

I don't lose miners/builders to careless cave-ins. When mining/building things where the possibility of a cave-in exists I go 1 row at a time to prevent such an event.
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numerobis

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Re: Hard lesson learned: cave-ins destroy floors.
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2011, 09:08:30 pm »

Walls, constructed or not, stop cave-ins.

What you may be remembering is that a falling constructed wall turns into a rock (or whatever it's made from), whereas a falling natural wall stays a wall.
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!!crundle!!

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Re: Hard lesson learned: cave-ins destroy floors.
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2011, 09:12:42 pm »

I actually make large multi-Z chambers using this method. It's great if you want to make an 'underground city'.

  • Dig floors
  • Set up controlled cave-in
  • ?
  • PROFIT!
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w̷̦̬̹̣͕̙͖͑̓̌̓̑̄͒͋͜͝h̙̩͈̱͚̳̳̪͖̙͕̥̳ͥ̍̔͂̑̿̓̍̑ͣ͆̅̀͢y̧̼̭͎͓̟̺͉̰͎̱̜ͫ̂́͗̐̑́w̢̬̪͈̲̽̋́̈̓ͨ̄͐̿̓ͧ̇ͩ̏ͫ̑̎͟͡ḩ̡͍̫̣̹̬̙̭͊ͯͯ̉͡y̔ͥ̏͛̀̂̎̆ͥͮ̐̍̈̏͆̓̅̒҉̢̘͚͎̠̻̣̯̥̠̙̤̪̮̝̲̜̪́̕̕ͅw̸̗̻̱ͭͣͦͤ̇̑̅͗ͨͬ͋̉͊ͨ͂͜hͩͪ̋ͣ̇̔͂ͧ̍̾͂͏̨̠͕̼̟͙̳̺͕̥͔̜̮̩̰̲̞̼y̴̸̵̪͕̜̪̙̦̘ͧ̽̇ͭͭͬͯ̾̈́̐̂̉͆͒ͤ̌̀̕w̺̟͙͙̭͇̟̮͉̯͈͖̩͔͊͛ͧͯ̀̿ͣͪ͂ͪ͘̕͠ͅh̷̴̷̢͉͖̺̦̣͙̓ͧ̅͋ͪ̾̓͒̌̒ͯ̇́ͯ̕y̋ͪ̓̒̈́͞͏̤̗̞̲̪͚̮̤̫̪̺̪̫̕w̸͔̺̱̼̪̮̘̟͖̭̱͓͈̜͇͚͉̙͊̈́ͦ̅̋̂ͩ̓͗́̚͡ͅĥ̶̨̟̺͕̌͆͒͑ͦͨ̉͆͜͜ý̧͓̼̘̯͉̘̺̩͇̻͈͔̖͎̜͍ͭ̌ͩ͟͝͞

krenshala

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Re: Hard lesson learned: cave-ins destroy floors.
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2011, 09:14:50 pm »

Walls, constructed or not, stop cave-ins.

What you may be remembering is that a falling constructed wall turns into a rock (or whatever it's made from), whereas a falling natural wall stays a wall.
Yeah, that sounds like it is probably the case.
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Quote from: Haspen
Quote from: phoenixuk
Zepave Dawnhogs the Butterfly of Vales the Marsh Titan ... was taken out by a single novice axedwarf and his pet war kitten. Long Live Domas Etasastesh Adilloram, slayer of the snow butterfly!
Doesn't quite have the ring of heroics to it...
Mother: "...and after the evil snow butterfly was defeated, Domas and his kitten lived happily ever after!"
Kids: "Yaaaay!"

ThatAussieGuy

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Re: Hard lesson learned: cave-ins destroy floors.
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2011, 09:31:53 pm »

I know constructed ramps disappear, that's how I create pits with no exits that my miners can actually escape from.

This intrigues me in new and interesting ways to have !!Fun!! with things...  Thank you good sir...

ASCIt

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Re: Hard lesson learned: cave-ins destroy floors.
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2011, 09:40:19 pm »

I know constructed ramps disappear, that's how I create pits with no exits that my miners can actually escape from.

This intrigues me in new and interesting ways to have !!Fun!! with things...  Thank you good sir...

Of course, I actually just figured it out myself, but no problem.
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moki

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Re: Hard lesson learned: cave-ins destroy floors.
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2011, 10:03:31 pm »

Cave-ins punching through floors is only truly fun when you have several high pressure magmaducts through your fortress. I once built a fort with pressurized magma defense and an obsidian maker to make unlimited building material. One day, something went horribly wrong while casting another layer of obsidian and a block of stone punched through a magma pipe, the farms and several storage rooms without proper doors, flooding most of the fort in a a few days... it was the only time I just had to reload the last autosave because the amount of Fun was unbearable. It has also taught me to always have a layer of massive stone or built walls under water or magma pipes and another one above when it's pressurized.
It's probably more dwarfy to just ignore the usual health and safety regulations, though... ;)
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TrombonistAndrew

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Re: Hard lesson learned: cave-ins destroy floors.
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2011, 11:30:08 am »

Yes, I'm definitely making sure I have actual walls below magma AND water now. If I decide to reclaim the site, at least maybe some of my goods will be scattered above-ground making things a bit easier. That would be a major, major pump operation to reclaim that one, though.
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numerobis

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Re: Hard lesson learned: cave-ins destroy floors.
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2011, 11:32:52 am »

If you dig under the sea, make sure to put down doors too, to minimize how much you have to drain out after a reclaim.  Unless that bug's been fixed.
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Triaxx2

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Re: Hard lesson learned: cave-ins destroy floors.
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2011, 08:41:59 pm »

Hmm... I'd use floodgates rather than doors in large halls. Put them at the bottoms of stair wells, on each level locking halls. Large rooms have vertical bars/fortifications to allow water to drain out if you forget to close the doors, closed off with fortifications.

And have pumps built in to drain the fort. Pump up through the bottom and out into the sea. Build a pedestal on the surface, containing levers for the flood gates, and pumps. Add a bridge, with it's own control lever.
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