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[franti]

I just wanted to say this.

I recently embarked on a volcanic map with 5 layers of Obsidian unspoiled by Orthoclase or Alunite or Microcline (I removed those last two, but that's beside the point).
The only metals around are Arsenic ores and Galena. A challenge! (and heavy metal poisoning).

It's so nice to get layers of the same stone type without anything larger than a gem cluster to mess up the neatness.

[They Got Leader]

Really? I like quite the opposite, with plenty of gems and metals lining the walls of my fortress. Its like the earth itself is giving color to my living quarters.

[Roraborialisforealis]

Really? I like quite the opposite, with plenty of gems and metals lining the walls of my fortress. Its like the earth itself is giving color to my living quarters.

I like settling the last soil layer and making the second last soil layer a Z level wide tree farm. I like bronze (Which in my copy is lighter and sharper, as I have been taught to believe in IRL,) I prefer worse metals to be common (I LOVE LOTS OF COPPER, and a little tin.)

[Girlinhat]

I may start modding in a number of colorful veined rocks, like kimberlite, so that my fort is crossed and splashed with a glorious rainbow of stone.  It will be very gay.

[They Got Leader]

I may start modding in a number of colorful veined rocks, like kimberlite, so that my fort is crossed and splashed with a glorious rainbow of stone.  It will be very gay.

When you make that, pass it on to me, please? I would like to have a similar looking fortress.

Really? I like quite the opposite, with plenty of gems and metals lining the walls of my fortress. Its like the earth itself is giving color to my living quarters.

...I like bronze (Which in my copy is lighter and sharper, as I have been taught to believe in IRL,) I prefer worse metals to be common (I LOVE LOTS OF COPPER, and a little tin.)

Agreed. I use all metals when building my massive architecture. Adds color.

[Girlinhat]

I have a preference for rose gold.  It's fun in game, and in real life it's a pretty fine metal as well.  It has a nice healthy color and weight.  And my experience with bronze chainmail is that bronze is very tough.  An 18 guage wire takes some muscle to bend with pliers.  I'd almost say that's it's too tough for jewelry, being difficult to work by hand.  Copper and aluminum have proven extremely easy, with the same size of aluminum wire being comparable to a soda can in hardness, rather easy to bend.  I've yet to work with stainless or mild steel, but bronze is harder than galvanized steel for sure (that's electric fencing wire, mostly).

[They Got Leader]

I have a preference for rose gold.  It's fun in game, and in real life it's a pretty fine metal as well.  It has a nice healthy color and weight.  And my experience with bronze chainmail is that bronze is very tough.  An 18 guage wire takes some muscle to bend with pliers.  I'd almost say that's it's too tough for jewelry, being difficult to work by hand.  Copper and aluminum have proven extremely easy, with the same size of aluminum wire being comparable to a soda can in hardness, rather easy to bend.  I've yet to work with stainless or mild steel, but bronze is harder than galvanized steel for sure (that's electric fencing wire, mostly).

I have a preference for rose gold, given its color. That and white gold, for their value and looks.

Bronze is tough and heavy, if I recall correctly. It was given up for iron historically, so I assume iron is stronger...?

[Girlinhat]

Actually, I've heard that tin was a little rare.  Specifically, modern smelting techniques weren't available and the tin ore was useless to ancient civilizations, so bronze was difficult to produce.  Iron was comparatively plentiful and just about equal in use, and could be forged into steel with extra work.  Bronze is a bit heavier than steel, and I know it's tougher because the pliers I've been using aren't rated for stainless steel, they actually make custom pliers with a short clamp and longer handles to gain leverage on steel.  Even still, with my small experience handling bronze, I'd trust it going into battle.  It's pretty tough stuff.

Also, I'm a fan of bismuth bronze for its color and cost of production - cheaper in ore cost than bronze and worth more!  In a pure military embark, I can bring enough B.Bronze to arm 10 soldiers using default embark point amount, and get my first migrants armed before winter arrives.

[elf-fondling human]

Personally, I've always liked iron. It's a nice color, reasonably strong, and not unbearably heavy. Sure, steel is better, but iron's easier to process and doesn't hurt my eyes as much.

[They Got Leader]

Actually, I've heard that tin was a little rare.  Specifically, modern smelting techniques weren't available and the tin ore was useless to ancient civilizations, so bronze was difficult to produce.  Iron was comparatively plentiful and just about equal in use, and could be forged into steel with extra work.  Bronze is a bit heavier than steel, and I know it's tougher because the pliers I've been using aren't rated for stainless steel, they actually make custom pliers with a short clamp and longer handles to gain leverage on steel.  Even still, with my small experience handling bronze, I'd trust it going into battle.  It's pretty tough stuff.

Also, I'm a fan of bismuth bronze for its color and cost of production - cheaper in ore cost than bronze and worth more!  In a pure military embark, I can bring enough B.Bronze to arm 10 soldiers using default embark point amount, and get my first migrants armed before winter arrives.

Tin was very rare, which is why they used bronze. I remember now!

Bronze was used because it was less brittle than iron and could stand up better in battle. They also used it because only the super rich could be soldiers or afford the ability to fight, leading to them having power. They had no way to forge steel at the times of bronze.

Once iron could be made less brittle, was when bronze was removed. It gave power to the people.

[Girlinhat]

Bronze is fairly fun, still.  I don't think it has a dirty form either.  Iron, steel, and aluminum can all be "dirty", where it rubs black against skin or clothes, making it bad for jewelry or clothing.  Aluminum fencing wire in hardware stores looks gorgeous and cheap, but it's dirty aluminum and rubs black, and useless for me.  Bronze doesn't have that issue, but iron and mild steel will also rub black.  That's why stainless steel is always preferred, the chromite keeps it from rubbing dirty, and it's still strong and durable.  Still, at the end, aluminum is my preference in real life simply for cost.  At its low weight, you can buy aluminum by the ounce and get more than other materials.  3oz of bronze cost more than 2oz of aluminum, and I got more aluminum.  Bronze has a fun color and density, but it gets expensive.  Copper is cheap too, but it's always rather weak and turns skin green, or it's got that plastic covering thing that tends to chip when cutting the wire and that ruins everything.  Bronze is nice because its color is native, it'll never wear away, though it will tarnish and turn darker, but I like the deeper hue.

I'm rambling though, don't get me started on metals and rings and such

[Jacob/Lee]

Tin was very rare, which is why they used bronze. I remember now!

Bronze was used because it was less brittle than iron and could stand up better in battle. They also used it because only the super rich could be soldiers or afford the ability to fight, leading to them having power. They had no way to forge steel at the times of bronze.

Once iron could be made less brittle, was when bronze was removed. It gave power to the people.

Isn't an ingredient for bronze tin?

[Girlinhat]

Yes, which is why bronze was expensive.  Pre-iron equipment would have been primarily leather and stone, like the Cuirass made of hardened leather and studded with some metal.  See: Lineothorax or something similar, which is incorrect because it would NOT be made of linen.  Still, some well-made leather armor would provide a lot of protection.  We're not talking about common work boots nowadays, but it had more the consistency of sheetrock, you could bang your knuckles against it and come back bruised.  As war was, and is, an art form in itself, there were designers to work on how to use things like leather and rope to protect a soldier against swords and arrows.  DF doesn't do much to simulate hardened leather, it's more like clothing leather.

This is all because copper was a common enough metal, but rather weak, and tin was rare but essential for bronze, and bronze was amazing for the time.  Spears would probably be preferred, as they could be tipped with bronze but made of wood, while a sword would need a solid blade.  A soldier's equipment would be a spear or club, maybe a sword for better infantry, and leather or packed cloth armor.  War was brutal, people died, a lot.  Full bronze plate armor was extremely expensive, and more for officers.

When metalworking allowed iron to be used for weapons and armor (formerly too brittle, a bit of carbon would help) allowed soldiers to get real armor and weapons made of cheap iron, instead of reserving expensive bronze for the officers.  Of course, cheap iron armor was still far beyond a commoner's means.  One did not simply 'become a warrior' but would probably grab a pitchfork and leather tunic and go die.  War was still very brutal and only good or wealthy soldiers would get true equipment.  A suit of Crusader armor is comparable in value to a modern house (before the housing market crashed).

[They Got Leader]

That was the thing, every soldier on the field came out with leather jerkins and a club, but the rich would come out in the hoplite dress.  Bronze chestplate, shield and spear and they would be able to demolish anyone that stood in their path. Only the merchant class (the elite) could afford to have such weapons and armor. Plus, they had the free time to even train for war, that is why the elite class had all the power. They had the money to buy the weaponry.

Iron was too brittle, it would break too easily. But when they made a way to make efficient weapons from iron that wouldn't shatter (by adding carbon), everyone could afford a good weapon, because iron was abundant.

But! When the full plate mail came around, truly on the lords and the best knights had full sets of plate mail because they were expensive. Very, very expensive. However, it was more likely to get you through a battle. The standard soldier didn't have metal armor, just metal weapons. Steel was produced in small amounts, once again for only the very rich.

[Girlinhat]

I would say "I'm going to make realistic leather and non-metal weapons" but it doesn't quite work.  Old armies would have something like a dozen officers and 500 peasants, or something.  The militia would die in droves, packing leather and wool and wooden clubs, while the officers could set atop their horses and spear men from 5 feet away!  For that to work in DF would require 1: no ghosts, 2: a LOT of dwarves, 3: a big computer for the FPS hit of that many soldiers.

Hmm, maybe I could include an "animal" that you could buy from traders, that was a creature made to resemble an armed soldier.  Limbs can be made into weapons and tissue thickness can allow for "leather armor", no shields and you'll see odd results like "the goblin strikes the serf in the right club and the severed part flies off in an arc!" but I think you could have quick-healing, cheap animals to represent a villager army...