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[umiman]

They really need an engine that can handle more than a handful of NPCs on screen.

Friggin assassin's Creed unity had something like that, even though the game is a hot mess.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

They really need an engine that can handle more than a handful of NPCs on screen.

Friggin assassin's Creed unity had something like that, even though the game is a hot mess.

Few NPCs seems to be a problem with Bethesda games.  I seem to recall the new Doom could only have a limited number at one time.

[Simon]

Whatever part of Tamriel they choose, I hope it recaptures the atmosphere I got enveloped in when I first fired up Morrowind.

Not in the foreign world (as opposed to clichéd fantasy settings), but in the feeling, that you actually are a friggin' nobody - an outsider, an unwelcome presence, an n'wah, not another would-be generic hero (although you eventually became one). You entered a place with deep rooted traditions, generally uninviting to foreign people. A dark place, a bloody place - a believable place. It was a great environment for role-playing, if one chose to. The lore, the culture, you actually saw that the developers put their minds to it and crafted the world (almost) from nothing, whereas Oblivion was a total disappointment in this aspect (I guess only the Radiant AI and some other mechanics, along with graphics, were upsides).

Elder Scrolls is an awesome universe, full of mythology, conflict, religion, betrayal, legends, fleshed out cultures and civilizations, mysteries - whatever, you name it. But, to me, the only game that managed to build on this unique background, was Morrowind. I've mentioned my opinion on Oblivion. Skyrim just upped the epic fantasy ante, which isn't exactly a bad thing, but it did so in a way, that made it seem like just another woo-hoo open-world RPG, only set in one of my favourite universes.

Mind you, I don't exactly need a pessimistic, dark, cruel world (although it may seem I prefer so, but - bear with me on this - imagine, what exactly is the appeal in a show like Game of Thrones? or Sapkowski's Witcher?), I just want a believable atmosphere, or at least a glimpse of it.

But, since games today are being made with casual players in mind, it all is just a one man's dream.

So... Black Marsh I guess...

[umiman]

They really need an engine that can handle more than a handful of NPCs on screen.

Friggin assassin's Creed unity had something like that, even though the game is a hot mess.

Few NPCs seems to be a problem with Bethesda games.  I seem to recall the new Doom could only have a limited number at one time.

I was tempted to say it's because they're made for consoles, but again.... Frigging assassin's Creed unity had it.

[Silverthrone]

Assassin's Creed NPCs and The Elder Berries NPCs are rather different entities, though. The ones in AssCre aren't very complicated, and there's probably a lot of despawning and respawning and other tricks to keep the frames down. The TES NPCs are more complex, and have a lot more variables to go through, like disposition checks, their daily schedules et cetera. Plus, AssCreed Onion is about assassinating people in a crowded city, so making big crowds run well was likely higher on the priority list for it than for the TES team.

In brief, AssCred Onion and The Elder Berries; very different games.

It really would be a good idea of them to create simpler "filler" NPCs for such occasions, though. Rendering a big battle scene or a bustling high street might still be a tall order, but just upping it from ten to 30 would make a pretty big difference.

[Kot]

1) Scripts are data, so now you need to distribute a BSA with any mod that uses them and you can't edit scripts inside the creation kit.

SKSE.

2) Clicking on things to select them in the console seems to not work anymore, this is a major annoyance. On the other hand "help" is actually useful, so it's a wash.

Clicking definitely does work.

Assassin's Creed NPCs and The Elder Berries NPCs are rather different entities, though.

And then theres is Witcher where NPCs are fucking important very but there are still tons of filler peasants.

[Silverthrone]

Different games. They figured out a way, and felt it important enough to get sorted. Beth ought to take notes, it's certainly possible to have both.

[itisnotlogical]

IIRC, a lot of townspeople in Morrowind (even named ones) were just generic dudes that had default dialogue for everything. There's probably room for optimizing the non-graphics side there, having them all share a common set of resources wherever possible.

I do agree that supposedly major population centers feel a bit barren in Bethesda games, but I only notice it if I really think about it.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Aren't there a bunch of generic NPCs roaming around already?  Couldn't they just use that stuff and have them randomly spawn around town and despair when they enter buildings?  Maybe make the towns bigger if they want to give each their own house?

[Silverthrone]

Well, a few. But I think they might still be a bit on the resource intensive side. Scaling them down a bit more still and having them spawn out when no longer needed would be the best, true. Fingers crossed for the next game. It's possible to do, that's for sure.

I don't really notice the lack of NPCs most of the time, but it really stands out when I think of it. You know, like when you're in a packed market and there's... Two people browsing five stalls or something. Not a huge concern, but with such a comparatively simple fix and everything...

Bloody, bloody Gamebryo, the true scourge of Nirn.

EDIT: I could do some testing, but I haven't got the CK handy. I remember that even basic NPCs with no real dialogue or AI packages still managed to clog up the game pretty bad once you went over fifteen or so in the same room. That was in Oblivion, though. They soaked up a strange amount of resources, those potato men. Definately a case for an engine change or a more spartan NPC-entity.

[umiman]

Aren't there a bunch of generic NPCs roaming around already?  Couldn't they just use that stuff and have them randomly spawn around town and despair when they enter buildings?  Maybe make the towns bigger if they want to give each their own house?

There are mods that do that exact thing. I use them a lot because otherwise the towns are so dead.

[Teneb]

Well, Todd Howard claims that they don't have the technology to do what they want to do in TESVI, so there may be hope. Maybe.

[Silverthrone]

Oh, Christ, that could mean just about anything coming from him... Well, fingers crossed. It's a reasonably good sign that they are taking their time.

Faith, hope and love, I guess.

[Kot]

TES VI : (School) life simulator, now in VR!

[Akura]

Or a return to Morrowind 3-400 years after the original.

There kinda isn't a Morrowind to return to at that point in the time line. Not much of one anyway. About 80% of its landmass kinda exploded, and the Argonians invaded most of the rest.