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Author Topic: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim  (Read 1624175 times)

Neyvn

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #10500 on: February 17, 2014, 05:05:36 pm »

BLAUGH!!! Can't read and watch anime at same time damn it :P
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Putnam

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #10501 on: February 17, 2014, 05:10:05 pm »

You'll probably want to read 36 Lessons of Vivec (though the loveletter is an annotated version of the relevant part), the Monomyth, Aurbic Enigma 4: The Elden Root, Nu-Mantia Intercept (though Aurbic Enigma gives a much more easily-read explanation of the Towers) and Final Report to Trebonius.

Leyic

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #10502 on: February 17, 2014, 07:37:18 pm »

You should also read the comments section, particularly Kirkbride's long post, which I'll repost here so no one has to hunt for it (the second paragraph is the most important):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So basically, if I'm interpreting this right:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The possibly most disturbing part to all this is the rumor that Bethesda supports C0DA, potentially only as a way of being lazy so they don't have to justify all the "contradictory" lore in TESO, and theoretically in TES VI and beyond.

Edit: Also, for the final battle scene, think of it like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 07:39:43 pm by Leyic »
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Xantalos

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #10503 on: February 17, 2014, 07:44:54 pm »

So it's basically a fancy way fo throwing your hands up in the air and saying 'Know what? Fuck it, anything goes I don't even give a shit.'
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Teneb

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #10504 on: February 17, 2014, 07:50:43 pm »

What C0DA really does is set TES lore apart from that of other franchises, by making it "open", so to speak.

Also, you got to agree that the Pseudo-6th-house section of C0DA was really cool.

I was going to post that we should probably consider ESO lore to be "semi-canon", as in: if it conflicts with previous lore it should be disregarded, otherwise considered part of the canon. But that is moot with MK's declaration now, I suppose.

Zenimax Online could have come up with far better explanations as to why Cyrodiil is generic fantasy land in the Interregnum instead of a mayincatec jungle though. Hell, just saying that when Talos changed Cyrodiil into what it is now also caused it to change retroactively would be acceptable.
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WillowLuman

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #10505 on: February 17, 2014, 07:58:46 pm »

Actually, I find the more contradictory part of ESO to be that apparently the world underwent another oblivion crisis back then, what with all those "Dark Anchors" everywhere.
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Xantalos

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #10506 on: February 17, 2014, 08:02:01 pm »

Just you wait, the ending of the campaign'll retcon everything that happened in the game out of existence.
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Putnam

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #10507 on: February 17, 2014, 08:11:19 pm »

I mentioned Star Wars and and Kirkbride said "I'm doing Star Wars next", which I find funny. Of course, Kirkbride came up with one of my favorite star wars trivia tidbits (the twist at the end of the Force Unleashed), but I think the thought of him debating Leland Chee (who knows Star Wars canon better than George Lucas) is hilarious.

Anyway, the point is that canon is irrelevant. Elder Scrolls isn't a fucking religious text. I was saying this the day before I saw the Lego Movie, the Lego Movie affirmed my thoughts on the matter, Michael Kirkbride and the good men and women at Zenimax Online Studios and Bethesda confirmed it for me. It's interactive fiction. Having a "canon" only stifles creativity. Don't think of it as an explanation for plot-holes; think of it as a way to open up the world as a mythology. Do you think greek mythology has a canon? Hell no, it was written by hundreds of people over hundreds of years. The same will be true for Tamriel.

It's not about covering plotholes. It's about making wonderful, wonderful texts like Wy-Naught And the Pear-You-Eat or Khajiit did not steal anything! just as valid as Oblivion or Skyrim, and I fully support it.

WillowLuman

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #10508 on: February 17, 2014, 08:25:18 pm »

I like to put it as "Your headcanon is canon for anyone else that likes and accepts your ideas, but no one, not even the 'core' writers, can impose their personal canon unwillingly upon on others. However, whether others agree or not, your personal interpretation will always be true for you."
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Teneb

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #10509 on: February 17, 2014, 08:26:09 pm »

I suppose I forgot to mention that yeah, MK's declaration, C0DA and reading some of the stuff from ESO did change my mind on all this canon stuff. Also, this is worth mentioning, I think.

My main problem with ESO right now is the monetization system, but that would go on the ESO thread if I cared enough to rant about it.

still think accounting error cyrod explanation is lazy, though
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Putnam

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #10510 on: February 17, 2014, 08:34:02 pm »

Ah, that can be explained by Phrastus of Elinhir being a contrarian dingbat who wants to contradict Lady Cinnabar of Taneth at every turn.

There's also some joking about the... odder things that have happened to the lore, like that book I just linked being from 4E195 and written by Septimus Signus. Read the note at the bottom.

Leyic

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #10511 on: February 17, 2014, 09:27:41 pm »

Actually, I find the more contradictory part of ESO to be that apparently the world underwent another oblivion crisis back then, what with all those "Dark Anchors" everywhere.
The "Molag Bal Crisis" makes sense retroactively considering there was no Emperor of the Dragonblood on the throne and the Dragonfires were unlit. Mannimarco takes advantage of the situation and fills the same role as Mankar Camoran, producing a cult that gives Molag Bal easy access to Nirn while White Gold is offline.

Do you think greek mythology has a canon?
Mythology is interesting because there's no objective truth to it, leaving it wide open to interpretation, which is why it's an academic field (unlike, say, Harry Potter). That's how lore was in TES before now, with everything having been written from the subjective points-of-view of in-lore characters, fully open to our interpretation. Fans don't need C0DA to write subjective lore like that. All C0DA does is let fans submit their writing as objective truth not open to interpretation. Sure, it gives free license to writers to be as creative as they want with the assurance that their version of the lore won't be wrong, but in doing so it also stomps on everyone trying to interpret or debate the lore, diminishing the subjectivity that makes TES lore feel like mythology.

As much as Kirkbride uses it to escape trying to explain anything, he also uses it as a weak way of telling everyone in the community to get along and quit debating each other, ignoring the fact that it's debate that makes the lore interesting. If he wants to provide a place for people to submit their writings, that's fine, but he doesn't need to declare that all lore is created equally because that was already true for TES, and all he wound up doing was confusing subjective and objective lore. He didn't need to provide explanations for anything, he just needed to provide more lore.

As for C0DA the text, it really is lazy writing. The whole "Vivec and Friends" segment is a bunch of crazy random things crammed into each other that have nothing to do with the story, then we get a string of cameos for the sake of having cameos, and the final battle is a conversation which is well in line with TES lore, except we only get to hear one side of the conversation. I found myself generally not confused, and left with no new questions, which is the opposite of what I'd expect from Kirkbride's writing.

Mr. Strange

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #10512 on: February 18, 2014, 05:20:39 pm »

As far as I'm concerned, this whole TESO thing is transcription error.
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BFEL

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #10513 on: February 18, 2014, 07:10:23 pm »

As far as I'm concerned, this whole TESO thing is transcription error.
As far as I'm concerned, this whole TESO thing can eat a massive, fetid, poisonous dong salad and have cancerous sphincterhairs for appetizers.


That said, back to one of the ACTUAL games in the series: Skyrim.
Specifically mods.
Anyone know if SkyRE is compatible with the Civil War Overhaul? I'm thinking probably not just because they both have their own "disguise" system, but I hope I'm wrong.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 08:51:47 am by BFEL »
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GrizzlyAdamz

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #10514 on: February 19, 2014, 10:19:14 pm »

Is civil war overhaul the one that's been dead for months and isn't friendly with anything?
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