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[MorleyDev]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JweTAhyR4o0

This guy has my feelings articulated in an admirable way.

He says something in this I do think is very true and very wrong with mainstream gaming at the moment: "It's harder to lose than it is to win".

Sorry, what is 'lore breaking' about a daedra making a dog talk? I mean they have all sorts of godlike powers. This seems pretty low on the totem pole honestly.

I think the "lore breaking" he's seeing is acting like the other stuff is weird, when aside from the Dragons it'd be fairly standard fare in the TES world. But I think the joke still works as a talking dog calling a bunch of mundane stuff weird in an attempt to justify his own weirdness. It'd be like a talking dog from a real life setting saying: "You think a talking dog is weird? You travel around in a metal box powered by explosions!". Still works, I think.

[pisskop]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JweTAhyR4o0

This guy has my feelings articulated in an admirable way.

Very good points, but his hammering away at kiddies gets annoying. He severely underestimates kids, like myself really enjoying Morrowind at age 11.

i agree.  As if the only casual gamers are kiddies.  However, I understand his anger towards kid gamers.

[alexandertnt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JweTAhyR4o0

This guy has my feelings articulated in an admirable way.

He makes some valid points and some fair comparisons, but his strawman of "casual/kid gamers" (hey, there the same right?) is quite annoying. Prefer not walking around in circles to find a quest location? Your a casual gamer, apparently. It also makes you feel that if you disagree with a point, you are "a casual/kid gamer" and your points/arguments are invalid because of it. He also assumes that casual gamers are the reason that Bethesda did everything that he dislikes to the series, not allowing for any other possibility.

He says that Morrowind NPC's had more chat options and the later games did not, and that this makes the world more noticeably fake. However, most chat options in Morrowind were all the same for almost every single NPC word to word. That makes the world noticeably fake. If you were to strip away all of this redundant chat than the ammount of chat becomes much less.

I agree with him on the puzzles though. Skyrim does not have puzzles because there are no puzzle elements to pushing E until two images align. What he failed to consider though is even "casual" gamers probably found them a waste of time/too easy, he just assumed that because it was dumb that of course it was made for casual gamers .

However, I understand his anger towards kid gamers.

But his anger is directed towards casual gamers. Or kid gamers. Or both. He uses them interchangeably.

What defines a "kid" gamer, and what is wrong with kid gamers? The only information he has given me is the strawman that they don't like to take responsibility for their own actions and other points of information that don't seem to be implied from being a kid/causual gamer.

[Putnam]

He's using the strawman as something Bethesda sees, I think.

[Vattic]

He says that Morrowind NPC's had more chat options and the later games did not, and that this makes the world more noticeably fake. However, most chat options in Morrowind were all the same for almost every single NPC word to word. That makes the world noticeably fake. If you were to strip away all of this redundant chat than the ammount of chat becomes much less.

But shouldn't you be able to bring up any topic you know about with anyone? I figured that was why they were all the same.

[Mech#4]

Did Morrowind have puzzles? The only one I can think of off the top of my head was the whole "breathe water" temple test that stumped a number of players because it required you to do something that you usually try and avoid. I don't think Oblivion had puzzles either ::Thinks hard:: Nothings coming to mind, though I'm thinking of enviromental puzzles.

The rotating pillar puzzles in Skyrim are simple lock combinations and I particually liked the doors that required you to look closely at the dragon claws to learn the combination. They're not complex but it was fun interacting with items like that. There might've been a puzzle somewhere in the vein of "open all the doors when some levers open and close some doors".

Dialogue in Morrowind was repetitive, but it's not really as obvious because it's not voiced. Characters which stand out in Morrowind usually did for me because they had different dialogue from the surrounding NPCs. Of course, install the likes of Bloodmoon and you can ask nearly anyone about Solstheim.

"Solstheim? A terrible place, I've heard. There's a boat from Khuul, if you have any reason to go".

[Tellemurius]

Did Morrowind have puzzles? The only one I can think of off the top of my head was the whole "breathe water" temple test that stumped a number of players because it required you to do something that you usually try and avoid. I don't think Oblivion had puzzles either ::Thinks hard:: Nothings coming to mind, though I'm thinking of enviromental puzzles.

The rotating pillar puzzles in Skyrim are simple lock combinations and I particually liked the doors that required you to look closely at the dragon claws to learn the combination. They're not complex but it was fun interacting with items like that. There might've been a puzzle somewhere in the vein of "open all the doors when some levers open and close some doors".

Dialogue in Morrowind was repetitive, but it's not really as obvious because it's not voiced. Characters which stand out in Morrowind usually did for me because they had different dialogue from the surrounding NPCs. Of course, install the likes of Bloodmoon and you can ask nearly anyone about Solstheim.

"Solstheim? A terrible place, I've heard. There's a boat from Khuul, if you have any reason to go".

the filth house bells can count as a puzzle including the Theatre quest in Mournhold and that damn spinning blade room in sotha sils dungeon.

[alexandertnt]

He's using the strawman as something Bethesda sees, I think.

In that case he is still assuming that because bethesda "dumbed" it down in his view, that it was because bethesda were "pandering" to the "casual" audience, and that was the only reason and the entirety of the reason.

For example it could be entirely possible that someone designing the game decided that an element added a significant cost to development which also added little to the game, so they gut it and focus the resources freed up from that somewhere else. All this without considering the "casual" audience.

It could actually explain why some of the games do various things better and worse than other games of the series.

But shouldn't you be able to bring up any topic you know about with anyone? I figured that was why they were all the same.

(Should probably have replaced "options" with "replies") Should they reply with exactly the same block of text word to word? It gave the strong feeling that all the npc's just derived most of their conversation from a common set, and made many of the characters seem like generic NPC #n. It heavily dehumanised many of the characters for me, turning them into robots.

Plus it also littered the chat window with redundant conversation options.

[Soadreqm]

Should they reply with exactly the same block of text word to word? It gave the strong feeling that all the npc's just derived most of their conversation from a common set, and made many of the characters seem like generic NPC #n. It heavily dehumanised many of the characters for me, turning them into robots.

Plus it also littered the chat window with redundant conversation options.

Yes, I agree. I got the Less Generic NPC mods myself, and although the fan-sourced writing was pretty terrible at places, at least there was writing. The vanilla Bethesda style of creating a thousand NPCs and writing dialogue for maybe tens of them is stupid.

[miauw62]

I'll just give you my opinion: I find Morrowind less enjoyable than Skyrim, just because I want to play a game instead of reading walls of text and then walking around for five minutes just to have more text. Please don't murder me for this ;_;

Also, Betheseda needs to make money too. It's not like they butchered and milked the series to get as much money out of it as possible. It makes sense to me to change your game to the target audience.

[Teneb]

I'll just give you my opinion: I find Morrowind less enjoyable than Skyrim, just because I want to play a game instead of reading walls of text and then walking around for five minutes just to have more text. Please don't murder me for this ;_;

Also, Betheseda needs to make money too. It's not like they butchered and milked the series to get as much money out of it as possible. It makes sense to me to change your game to the target audience.

There is no shame in not liking Morrowind, despite what some may think.

And when it comes to the "dumbing down" (how I hate this term), Bethesda needs to make money. They are not making games simply because they like making games (but I hope they do like making these games). Skyrim was the best-selling TES yet, and, thus, could be considered the most successful of them. It's impossible to please everyone, and someone is going to complain about the game. As long as more people like the game than dislike it, then it is considered a success.

From what I remember, Morrowind was accused of being "dumbed down" and "made for casuals" when it came out by some Daggerfall fans. The same thing will happen to TESVI and any other possible future games in the series.

[Teneb]

Not even tried morrowind, but when the skywind mod comes out...

I believe you need to have morrowind to play skywind, from what I've seen on their site.

[MorleyDev]

Morroblivion and Skywind work perfectly fine with the Steam version

Morrowind had some problems, it's by no means a perfect game. But in streamlining away it's problems (which even I admit they definitely have done with Skyrim), they also removed a lot of the things Morrowind got right. Now, even if this wasn't done to appeal to those "damn dirty casual players" it's still a problem. I would love to see a game with the engine of Skyrim, but with the depth of Morrowind or even greater depth. But I doubt it's possible. Indies have the dreams but not the technical means, and big companies have the technical means, a lot maybe even have the dreams, but not the political means against their publisher overlords to whom such a prospect is too risky an investment (as much as I dislike it, even I admit that from their point of view it is a perfectly valid assessment).

[PanH]

Well, I just launched Morrowind again.
And OMG, JIUB IS THE GUY IN THE SHIP ! Never made the link 


To me, from the 3 last TES, Morrowind is the best RPG, while Skyrim is the best 'action' game.

[Devling]

What's the significance of Jiub? I never got to far in Morrowind.
I like Morrowind, but let me tell you, those directions are bullshit.
I can't remember how much time I spent wondering around looking for the dungeon or quest I need to do.
It's probably just my crappy sense of direction though...