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Author Topic: Dota 2  (Read 238990 times)

PhantomSpaceMan

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #270 on: February 11, 2012, 01:50:15 pm »

I dont know, the Stun is pretty hard to evade if you know she is in the lane. Just like facing pudge, always weave in and out of your ranged creeps. The stun will go off on one of them, sparing you. This is, obviously, if she is in a spot where she can actually arrow you.

You can not farm and do that at the same time. I'm not a ranged guy.

At any rate. It is very frusterating when you have farmed well and ganked well and all that stuff and can pretty much kill any two or three of the enemy team, but your own team is just not up to snuff so you still lose team fights.

The creeps hit-boxes are very large in this game, you'll get used to dodging arrows outright or ducking behind a creep in time. Melee have a harder time dodging spells for the the same reason that they can't avoid ranged harass: they need to get right up next to the creeps to farm.

You say that you farm well, but chances are if you're playing a melee hero you aren't getting the standard amount of farm for a carry. Which is about 4 creep kills per minute. You might think to yourself that getting that many creep kills while being harassed is impossible as melee, which it is, you need a ranged character in your lane that auto-attacks the enemy every time the enemy auto-attacks, to prevent them from harassing you with impunity. This will also allow you to stun them, and combined with attack damage from both you and your partner along with any additional nukes, should result in a kill. Chances are good, if you are playing by yourself, that you don't have a lane partner that harasses that well, they probably sit around with their thumb up their butt trying to take your last hits or auto-attacking the creeps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcIHCeHiPmk&feature=player_embedded#! This video explains the concept much better than I can, if you are playing a hero that needs farm to be most effective i.e. SK, than every minute you spend without items is a minute wasted, In other words fast farm is good farm and you probably can't get the farm fast enough without support from your team, a rarity in random pubs.

Carries, whether hard or mid-game, require not only farm, but intimate knowledge of the game's item system and how it fulfills the needs of their hero. In other words, the worst thing for a new player to learn the game with. You can learn to last-hit and lane just as well as farm-independent heroes, just as you can get the knowledge of items and the stats attached to them. The best melee hero to learn the game with is Tidebringer, early levels in Kraken Shell(with a level into stats at 4 and a level of gush at 1) will allow you to better approach the creeps to last hit. The range of his ultimate is over 1000 at level 3, meaning that you don't need a dagger and kraken Shell is essentially a free vanguard that interrupts stuns and other de-buffs once you've taken enough damage. The only downsides to Tide are that he is melee, and that some people find him boring(HIT R TO WIN),remedied by the plethora of activatable items that he can get such as wand,urn, drums, and an eventual blink dagger.

Ranged characters that are relatively easy to play are item independent with good spells and auto-attacks. Lich( targeted nuke, can pull the lane back with deny, and has the movespeed of a baller). Witch Doctor( beastly auto-attack with long range, situational stun, the damage potential of maledict). and VS(solid stun, minus armor, ult that can be game changing.). All of these heroes have great skills that are rather good even at a low level, which means that they can focus their purchases on utility(lots of wards,Mek, force staff) and also survivability(urn, drums,pipe) as opposed to bettering their attack damage to the degree necessary to carry.

I hope that anyone reading this has found it to be helpful advice and not circular rambling :P
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 01:53:13 pm by PhantomSpaceMan »
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Criptfeind

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #271 on: February 11, 2012, 11:54:23 pm »

I found most of it helpful, other then the implication my farm was sucking. I mean, certainly not optimal, but the thing is it was clearly better then anyone else there. I had the highest level and the best items of anyone in the game until right near the end (at the point where it was basically a five minute slaughter at our front gate in a last ditch effort to keep them back.)

I mean, I do not need to be perfect if everyone else sucks and unless a single carry is actually suppose to be able to kill the entire enemy team by himself I think I did fairly good.
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PhantomSpaceMan

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #272 on: February 12, 2012, 03:56:00 pm »

I found most of it helpful, other then the implication my farm was sucking. I mean, certainly not optimal, but the thing is it was clearly better then anyone else there. I had the highest level and the best items of anyone in the game until right near the end (at the point where it was basically a five minute slaughter at our front gate in a last ditch effort to keep them back.)

I mean, I do not need to be perfect if everyone else sucks and unless a single carry is actually suppose to be able to kill the entire enemy team by himself I think I did fairly good.

My apologies, I wouldn't make a post that implies that your playing was inferior when I hadn't looked at any of your games.

You are right that even the most optimal creep-score isn't going to win the entire game when the rest of your team has fed and has almost nothing for items. No matter how well you farm in the early game, you are always going to be beaten by an enemy carry who has fed on your teammates in whatever lane they had lost, it almost comes to the point that it isn't a contest between carries to determine who farms better, but a contest between long lanes to determine who can feed the least. In the very early game you can only really focus on farming your own lane, you can't really do any thing about top feeding when you are farming bottom, nor can you help mid losing and ceding rune control to whoever wants it on the other team(warding is a key part of rune control, but if your mid is beaten, then he can't contest the runes).

It's a bit of a conundrum for a carry hero, you can't contribute much to early team-fights, because you are either farming or haven't gotten big yet and don't have the amazing spells that other characters rely on. This has happened to me many times when queuing solo, no matter how well I farm, even if I get free farm, there is nothing I can do to stop my teammates in the other lanes from feeding the enemy carry(or carries). Many games I've had the best CS by the end of the game, only to be beaten out in GPM by other carries that are upwards of 10-0
from snacking on my tasty, squishy supports. There's not much you can do about your team-mates performance, all that you can do is learn to farm and gank better to eventually outperform your enemy. That's why I recommended Tide, you'll learn the same skills while supporting the team and hopefully winning a few team-battles with your Ult.
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umiman

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #273 on: February 12, 2012, 04:12:08 pm »

My philosophy is that it's not enough to be great relative to other players, you have to be great relative to the best. After all, I want to improve.... not stay great relative to bad players. Shoot for the moon and all that.

Unfortunately, the moon in this case is pretty damn far away considering some pros get 500+ CS in an hour and I can barely manage 200.

PenguinOverlord

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #274 on: February 12, 2012, 07:26:20 pm »

Clockwerk is tons of fun.
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Criptfeind

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #275 on: February 12, 2012, 11:01:17 pm »

Interesting. It looks like a stupidly one sided match it does not count as a loss. I just finished a 5v2 but my W/L is the same.
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LASD

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #276 on: February 14, 2012, 04:31:58 am »

Interesting. It looks like a stupidly one sided match it does not count as a loss. I just finished a 5v2 but my W/L is the same.

Yeah, we had a 5v3 that only saved a replay, but no stats on any players whatsoever. Which is actually pretty smart.
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Rex_Nex

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #277 on: February 14, 2012, 05:24:28 am »

IIRC, if two or more people on the same team leave within 15ish minutes of game start, the game is null :)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 08:24:47 am by Rex_Nex »
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Criptfeind

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #278 on: February 14, 2012, 12:16:21 pm »

That is a great little add on.

Also as a side note: I have realized that in every game I have played so far, with bots or humans it does not matter, when I play as the Radiant I win and when I play as the Dire I lose.

Every. Single. Game. Ever.
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Rex_Nex

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #279 on: February 17, 2012, 11:32:38 am »

So, DotA 2 will have LAN. Asian recruitment level... its over nine (hundred) thousand!
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Criptfeind

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #280 on: February 18, 2012, 10:58:45 am »

Anti mage mana burn. So annoying.

If there is ever anything I do not have enough of in the early to mid game, it is mana.
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Astral

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #281 on: February 18, 2012, 03:24:33 pm »

Yeah, DotA has always been somewhat limited in that regard; spells end up taking large chunks of mana, but usually have a greater effect if used properly, and aren't really meant to be spammed (for most heroes).

Anti Mage has always been annoying, since he can just run up, hit, and blink out, all the while farming and being extremely hard to lock down short of lots of disables.
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umiman

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #282 on: February 18, 2012, 05:35:00 pm »

The anti-mage counter is released anyway. Outworld destroyer or whatever his name is.

Lumbajak

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #283 on: February 18, 2012, 06:56:16 pm »

You know what's utterly terrifying?

An Invoker who actually knows what he's doing.

He's the hardest hero in the game to use, and probably hands down the best, being an auto attacking mage carry.

Bastard has about ten spells, and if the player knows all the combinations and is swift enough to change between them mid-combat, he's simply unbeatable.
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Traejeek

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #284 on: February 18, 2012, 09:17:54 pm »

I'm also in the DotA 2 beta. Anyone else here who's new or just looking to play can add me on steam (Traejeek).

I'm 100% rage-free, have a mic, won't mind instructing someone new, and I'm a decent player, if I say so myself.
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