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Author Topic: Homicidal humans!  (Read 2042 times)

Theifofdreams

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Homicidal humans!
« on: July 20, 2011, 09:15:20 pm »

So I'm running an elf adventurer for a change, and I'm pretty fresh out the gate on this one.
I go pick up a follower and proceed to start killing animals to train my weapon skill up. I accidentally target my follower once, so, of course, I end up having to kill her.
I go back to town to sell her weapons, and go into the nearest shop. The shopkeeper tells me "Don't talk to me." and I'm like... "K. bye." and as I step out of the door way, all the humans start fighting. Some of them attack me, some of them attack each other. None of them are soldiers, and the one I killed had no family.
What. Just. Happened?

MaskedMiner

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Re: Homicidal humans!
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2011, 03:20:12 am »

When you attack someone, you instantly become enemy of the civilization the person you attacked belonged to. So yeah.
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Trapezohedron

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Re: Homicidal humans!
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2011, 04:17:37 am »

Best thing to do is to wait until nightfall and kill them in their sleep. Or flee from the town, the civ, into the wild, wild world of the northern jungles/plains/whatever.

Seriously though, you have angered that civ, but that doesn't mean the whole human race hates you. You should flee into another empire.
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Shook

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Re: Homicidal humans!
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2011, 12:38:22 pm »

That sounds like a loyalty cascade, though i'm still not quite sure how they happen. What i know is that people kill their own siblings with glee when it happens. Hypothesis:

Your companion is part of that civ, and is friendly to you, which by proxy makes you a part of that civ. After attacking her, she and the entire civ turned hostile, but since you're also part of that civ, they turn hostile to themselves, and mass murder ensues. This is merely guessing, though.
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The Merchant Of Menace

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Re: Homicidal humans!
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2011, 12:51:13 pm »

That's exactly it. When someone attacks a member of a civ they are flagged as an enemy of the civ but aren't removed from it.
So when another member of the civ goes to attack them they themselves become an enemy of the civ, repeat until everyone is dead.
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Trapezohedron

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Re: Homicidal humans!
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2011, 09:31:40 pm »

That's exactly it. When someone attacks a member of a civ they are flagged as an enemy of the civ but aren't removed from it.
So when another member of the civ goes to attack them they themselves become an enemy of the civ, repeat until everyone is dead.

Which might be why tamed megabeasts in fortress mode still try to kill your dwarves. Those megabeasts are still flagged as an enemy of the civilization you're using and they're also members.

I might be wrong though.
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The Merchant Of Menace

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Re: Homicidal humans!
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2011, 09:40:38 pm »

Named creatures are never tamed correctly.
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RAKninja

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Re: Homicidal humans!
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2011, 09:43:34 pm »

That's exactly it. When someone attacks a member of a civ they are flagged as an enemy of the civ but aren't removed from it.
So when another member of the civ goes to attack them they themselves become an enemy of the civ, repeat until everyone is dead.

Which might be why tamed megabeasts in fortress mode still try to kill your dwarves. Those megabeasts are still flagged as an enemy of the civilization you're using and they're also members.

I might be wrong though.
i think this is the reason, yes.

also, fun fact:

if you kill a megabeast that is the enemy of a civ that is also the enemy of YOUR civ, the enemy civ becomes friendly.  you can recruit members from them.

example: i killed a roc that was the enemy of every civ on the continent.  even goblins were friendly for a time (though i quickly reflagged myself as an enemy).  i happened across a pair of bandits that were fighting.  i recruited one and killed the other.  going back into town of my homeciv, the bandit, being an enemy of my homeciv, started attacking civilians.  when they fought back, it seemed to flag my entire group as enemies of the civ.  so, me, and my companions, all members of this civ, became enemies of it.  had to go to the other side of the continent to not fight in towns.
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iyaerP

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Re: Homicidal humans!
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2011, 10:04:06 pm »

That's exactly it. When someone attacks a member of a civ they are flagged as an enemy of the civ but aren't removed from it.
So when another member of the civ goes to attack them they themselves become an enemy of the civ, repeat until everyone is dead.

Which might be why tamed megabeasts in fortress mode still try to kill your dwarves. Those megabeasts are still flagged as an enemy of the civilization you're using and they're also members.

I might be wrong though.
i think this is the reason, yes.

also, fun fact:

if you kill a megabeast that is the enemy of a civ that is also the enemy of YOUR civ, the enemy civ becomes friendly.  you can recruit members from them.

example: i killed a roc that was the enemy of every civ on the continent.  even goblins were friendly for a time (though i quickly reflagged myself as an enemy).  i happened across a pair of bandits that were fighting.  i recruited one and killed the other.  going back into town of my homeciv, the bandit, being an enemy of my homeciv, started attacking civilians.  when they fought back, it seemed to flag my entire group as enemies of the civ.  so, me, and my companions, all members of this civ, became enemies of it.  had to go to the other side of the continent to not fight in towns.

You did slaughter and loot the entire town first though, right? RIGHT?
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RAKninja

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Re: Homicidal humans!
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2011, 10:51:58 pm »

That's exactly it. When someone attacks a member of a civ they are flagged as an enemy of the civ but aren't removed from it.
So when another member of the civ goes to attack them they themselves become an enemy of the civ, repeat until everyone is dead.

Which might be why tamed megabeasts in fortress mode still try to kill your dwarves. Those megabeasts are still flagged as an enemy of the civilization you're using and they're also members.

I might be wrong though.
i think this is the reason, yes.

also, fun fact:

if you kill a megabeast that is the enemy of a civ that is also the enemy of YOUR civ, the enemy civ becomes friendly.  you can recruit members from them.

example: i killed a roc that was the enemy of every civ on the continent.  even goblins were friendly for a time (though i quickly reflagged myself as an enemy).  i happened across a pair of bandits that were fighting.  i recruited one and killed the other.  going back into town of my homeciv, the bandit, being an enemy of my homeciv, started attacking civilians.  when they fought back, it seemed to flag my entire group as enemies of the civ.  so, me, and my companions, all members of this civ, became enemies of it.  had to go to the other side of the continent to not fight in towns.

You did slaughter and loot the entire town first though, right? RIGHT?
of course.  they did attack me after all. i didnt loot them however.  i was decked out in steel, and really didnt need anything they had.
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Tiruin

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Re: Homicidal humans!
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2011, 05:23:02 am »

That sounds like a loyalty cascade, though i'm still not quite sure how they happen. What i know is that people kill their own siblings with glee when it happens. Hypothesis:

Your companion is part of that civ, and is friendly to you, which by proxy makes you a part of that civ. After attacking her, she and the entire civ turned hostile, but since you're also part of that civ, they turn hostile to themselves, and mass murder ensues. This is merely guessing, though.

Fact: This also happens in Fortress mode, try making a squad and hitting the dwarven merchants.  ;D

But now I'm curious, if you say that you had an enemy that now is your friend because you killed it's enemy, and that "friend" is an enemy of everything just like you; if you kill that "friend", do you drop your "hostile" tag on those who were enemies with you or do you become the most hated person in life as you even killed your past friend?  :)
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Theifofdreams

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Re: Homicidal humans!
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2011, 04:45:42 pm »

That... is very good to know. Today, I learned something new.
So. If I took a human ally and travelled to another civ, and took an ally from the second civ (assigning me to both) would that also assign both my humans to both? Or would the first still be exempt from the second?

RAKninja

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Re: Homicidal humans!
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2011, 04:49:14 pm »

Fact: This also happens in Fortress mode, try making a squad and hitting the dwarven merchants.  ;D

But now I'm curious, if you say that you had an enemy that now is your friend because you killed it's enemy, and that "friend" is an enemy of everything just like you; if you kill that "friend", do you drop your "hostile" tag on those who were enemies with you or do you become the most hated person in life as you even killed your past friend?  :)
you are just an enemy of that civ, and perhaps any civs they are friendly to.  as i said, i reflagged goblins.  i did have the chance to recruit one, but that felt wrong.  so i kiled him instead, and recruited a human bandit.
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