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[MetalSlimeHunt]

News from Olympus! The Washington State legislature is currently bringing up a measure about legalizing marijuana.

Wait really?

Have you been paying attention to West Coast politics at all? The federal government has basically already lost the ability to enforce marijuana law on that third of the nation, because arresting people for it at this point generally requires bringing in federal agents as the states have become noncomplient, and there are way too many people doing it for the federal prisons to be able to hold in any case.

[Canalan]

News from Olympus! The Washington State legislature is currently bringing up a measure about legalizing marijuana.

Wait really?

Have you been paying attention to West Coast politics at all? The federal government has basically already lost the ability to enforce marijuana law on that third of the nation, because arresting people for it at this point generally requires bringing in federal agents as the states have become noncomplient, and there are way too many people doing it for the federal prisons to be able to hold in any case.

In other words, Deus Ex is very close to becoming real.  Now all we need is nanite powers and stuff.
In all seriousness, all drugs should be legalized and then taxed like the gold mine they are.  The only reason they haven't been legalized already is because relevant large companies aren't geared to produce that much meth yet.  And I guess religious objections.

[ChairmanPoo]

So the public health risk does not concern you at all

[Canalan]

No.  If they want the drugs, they probably can get them already.  Make them legal and expensive and at least you suck some money out of them before they die alone.

[Realmfighter]

No.  If they want the drugs, they probably can get them already.  Make them legal and expensive and at least you suck some money out of them before they die alone.

And when they aren't in danger of arrest they can get help much more easily then before.

[kaijyuu]

So the public health risk does not concern you at all

How effective do you think outlawing drugs actually is?


Two reasons public health concerns... well, aren't concerns to me:
1) I'm not convinced a significant boost to drug usage would occur if they became legal. Wouldn't be a huge boost in availability since they're everywhere already, so what remains is the loss of the deterrent.
2) Lacing. Drugs would become LESS dangerous to use if legalized, simply because there isn't random crap thrown in them.


'Sides, if someone's stupid enough to do harmful drugs, one of three things happened: They're unstable and using them to cope with some sort of stress, they're ignorant, or they're stupid. For the first, we should fix whatever's causing the stress. For the second, drug education is less prohibitively expensive than drug outlawing. For the third, I've a darwin award to hand them.

[Frumple]

So the public health risk does not concern you at all

Well, we've still got alcohol and tobacco being sold en masse, so it's pretty obvious that public health risk isn't what the folks working with drug laws are concerned with, at all.

Then you've got stuff like that massive cancer-inducing X-rays on the border thing, which says pretty bluntly that public health risk is precisely what people give not two shits about.

Basically public health is apparently not what the folks putting this stuff into practice care about. If sane drug laws are going to come into effect (Currently not there!) we're going to have to work with the axioms already in place, first. The axiom that public health matters either isn't being considered or is insufficient to induce change and is thus largely irrelevant (from a practical standpoint) to the discussion.

Unfortunately.

[Luke_Prowler]

I can understand legalizing pot, but everything? Some of the stuff like Meth isn't something you can walk away from, it will seriously mess you up

[Tellemurius]

I can understand legalizing pot, but everything? Some of the stuff like Meth isn't something you can walk away from, it will seriously mess you up

Actually thats from the lacing, if you find Meth from a commercial lab (this is a legal drug still) it does its job without most of the really ill effects.

[Canalan]

Again, legalizing the "harder" drugs will not suddenly make all the youth, all of them take up Methcainjuana.  It honestly makes it safer for the few that will be willing to spend the cash, as it would introduce federal oversight into the business.  Also, alcohol and tobacco are pretty hard to walk away from, and can mess you up pretty bad, and yet they are legal.

Ninja'd but whatever.

[ECrownofFire]

Also note that making alcohol illegal kind of worked out horribly for the country, so there's that.

And honestly, I'll be surprised when Oregon isn't the first state to fully legalize marijuana

[scriver]

@kaijuu -
1. That's strange, seeming as every investigation into the matter seem to come to the conclusion that it will.

2. You do realise the crap they add to cigarettes make them both more addictive and unhealthy, right? Legal /= Unlaced.

As for the "stupid people deserve to die" argument, well, that doesn't even deserve a reply.


@Frumple -
That you do other unhealthy things is not an argument. It does not make the health issue irrelevant either. It just means you're doing several other things wrong as well.

[Frumple]

You meaning... the USA?

Yeah, I'm not and didn't say they weren't relevant from a conceptual or moral direction, just that it's become increasingly obvious as folks lobby and fight for sane drug law that the health issue isn't sufficient to induce change. Whatever it is they (being the people that make/enforce law) actually care about, public health isn't it, or is at best a very secondary concern.

From a practical standpoint, you want to address primary axioms when attempting to convince others change is needed, first and foremost. Secondary axioms are secondary and health seems to be that, if not tertiary or even more distanced in consideration.

[Luke_Prowler]

I can understand legalizing pot, but everything? Some of the stuff like Meth isn't something you can walk away from, it will seriously mess you up

Actually thats from the lacing, if you find Meth from a commercial lab (this is a legal drug still) it does its job without most of the really ill effects.

Oh, okay, I didn't know that. The article I'm reading on it doesn't really give a lot of information on the medical stuff

Again, legalizing the "harder" drugs will not suddenly make all the youth, all of them take up Methcainjuana.  It honestly makes it safer for the few that will be willing to spend the cash, as it would introduce federal oversight into the business.  Also, alcohol and tobacco are pretty hard to walk away from, and can mess you up pretty bad, and yet they are legal.

I understand that legalizing these things aren't going to cause people to rush to the pharmacy en mass (because I hate that Slippery Slope fallicy) expecially if they fall the same rules as using beer or cigs like DUI and restrictions public use, but I can also see their spread the same way beer and smoke do now: through peer pressure, which is a problem now

And just to not have an example that can't be related back to alchol and tobacco: Hallucinogens, which are far more dangerous than the big two, not just to the user but possible to anyone in the room at the drop of a hat.

[Canalan]

@kaijuu -
1. That's strange, seeming as every investigation into the matter seem to come to the conclusion that it will.

2. You do realise the crap they add to cigarettes make them both more addictive and unhealthy, right? Legal /= Unlaced.

As for the "stupid people deserve to die" argument, well, that doesn't even deserve a reply.


@Frumple -
That you do other unhealthy things is not an argument. It does not make the health issue irrelevant either. It just means you're doing several other things wrong as well.

Thanks for the rebuttal, I like this subject.

Every investigation into what by whom?
We are saying that there won't be additives that can kill you instantly if you so much as look as a package of <drug>.  Killing customers (quickly) is bad for business.  It's like with certain illegal liquors (moonshine) that are mostly wood alcohol that can blind and kill you.  This does not happen in the Heineken brewery.
I'm not saying stupid people deserve to die, I'm saying that if they want to kill themselves, let them do it, and charge them for the pleasure.
And it's not that health concerns go away just because they aren't relevant, they are there.  People just don't care.