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[LoSboccacc]

hehe I'd like to quote this:

A month before that, Comedy Central's website offered an astonishingly anti-Semitic video game wherein one character said, "You lied to me, Jew producer."   

sure, hate crime rampage.

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

Yeah, those are some incredibly convincing, totally unbiased, and very well-produced news sites right there.  Look at all that stuff about unnamed "Lebanese" apartment tenants in Denmark from two years ago.  You have convinced me sir, the Palestinians are absolutely the unspecific problem here, and Israel is at fault for none of the the things you seem to believe they are falsely accused of.

I don't suppose there's anything in one of those links you'd like to quote, instead of just linking?

*shrug

Take from it what you will.

[Leafsnail]

I will take from it that you are extremely anti-Muslim unless you distance yourself from those websites.

[Impending Doom]

A GOP that is so polarized that there's really not a downside to pissing them off. They're already pissed off. They're already alienated. They already think he's a foreign-born Muslim Antichrist and there's no amount of reality checks that is going to shake them out of that.

Just to clarify: You believe that every single member of the Republican party (or at the very least, the overwhelming majority of them) is a racist bible-thumping radical zealot?

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

I will take from it that you are extremely anti-Muslim unless you distance yourself from those websites.

If you wish to make such accusations, thats fine.  I cant stop you.  You simply take from it what you want, like I said.

[Bauglir]

"I'll let you draw the conclusions" is a terrible strategy if you actually have a point to make. Either you don't have a conclusion, or you don't want to go on record as having said something either likely to be proven wrong or unpopular. At least, that seems to be the usual reasoning, and that's what I take away when somebody says it.

If there is disagreement about whatever your point is, we can argue about it, but at least then you have a chance of demonstrating that yours is a sensible position.

[Leafsnail]

http://www.bennorris.co.uk/
http://www.culturejamthefilm.com/
http://www.eod.com/
http://www.openwall.com/
http://www.randomwebsite.com/

I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

...On a more serious note, I'd say dropping a series of extremely one sided (and in some cases clearly bigoted) links like that without comment is extremely bad form.  You could at least explain what position your taking.

[Africa]

Netanyahu's cabinet is finally rallying behind him instead of intentionally humiliating him in a bid to become the new leader of the right wing! Oh this is delicious. Except it's tragic because those dipshits are the ones who have the opportunity in their hands to maybe resolve the conflict.

I dunno about Obama. His bump from whacking bin Laden seems to have been kind of ephemeral. It's true no Republican challengers have emerged (although I think I saw something that I can't be bothered to look up about them fielding a black guy...come on, you can do better than "hey look we have a black guy too") but if the economy's still in the shitter when the elections come, he's not getting reelected, period. Too many people think the president has the power to make gas prices go down and the job market flourish. But September will be interesting for sure.

Given the immediate vitriolic and ungrateful reaction from Netanyahu and AIPAC to his speech (which freaking told the Palestinians they should stay in negotiations - exactly what Netanyahu wants as a way to stall, AND said their state should be demilitarized, meaning Israel can still re-occupy it whenever they want!) maybe he will decide to start squeezing though. American Republicans aren't the only ones who think he's a Muslim Arab; you can find plenty of that sentiment in "the Judea and Samaria district" too. No amount of concessions he can make to them will make them not hate him and who knows, he could finally learn that.

Edit: As for Ridiculous MacLinkman, the point he's trying to communicate is that Palestinians are basically all horrendous Nazis whose purpose in life is to kill as many Jews as possible by hook or by crook. Clearly a valuable contribution to any discussion and one that should not, for example, be completely ignored as any troll would be.

[Impending Doom]

I think I saw something that I can't be bothered to look up about them fielding a black guy...come on, you can do better than "hey look we have a black guy too"

Some guy named Herman Cain. The CEO of... a pizza joint...

[Africa]

Nice. How many bank board chairmen have gotten elected president?

Also, in reference to Obama buying Arab street credibility by pressuring Israel - maybe so, but that should be a side effect, not a goal. The goal should be for the US to have some shred of moral credibility and avoid hypocrisy (and imperialism). If we're pressuring Israel to stop an undemocratic occupation of another people, it should be because the US opposes things that are undemocratic and immoral. If we're preaching to Arabs about how great self-determination is, maybe we shouldn't be invading their countries for selfish reasons. Oh yeah, and maybe we shouldn't support horrible repressive regimes like Saudi Arabia. But why? To get oil-producing countries to like us? No, because America's global power is going to be declining in the future, and we want our legacy to be that we promoted genuine democracy, self-determination, and equal rights, and not that we supported tyrants and apartheid regimes and mysogynistic kingdoms for our own benefit or just out of stupidity.

Oh yeah, and I just remembered - Obama didn't at all mention the Arab peace initiative, the one the Arab League offered Israel 9 years ago and received no response, where if Israel withdraws from the Palestinian territories and allows a state to be established (including East Jerusalem) the entire Arab world will make peace and normalize relations with Israel. Seems like kind of an important thing. What with all the revolutions, he might have brought up that offer and told them they'd be held to it. And hinted heavily that Netanyahu should really, really think about it.

[thobal]

Did anyone mention how Obama's withdrawal to pre-'67 borders position is the same as Bush's withdrawal to pre-'67 borders position?

[Aqizzar]

Did anyone mention how Obama's withdrawal to pre-'67 borders position is the same as Bush's withdrawal to pre-'67 borders position?

Which Bush, the first or the second?  Because they both had the exact same proposal, as did Clinton, to start with the 1967 borders and trade territory as necessary.  Anyone who thinks this is a profound or radical position, well, yeah.

[nenjin]

*shrug

Take from it what you will.

K. Can I put you in the same camp as people who parachute into a thread and post Neo-nazi links to make their point? Because it's right up there.

[RedKing]

A GOP that is so polarized that there's really not a downside to pissing them off. They're already pissed off. They're already alienated. They already think he's a foreign-born Muslim Antichrist and there's no amount of reality checks that is going to shake them out of that.

Just to clarify: You believe that every single member of the Republican party (or at the very least, the overwhelming majority of them) is a racist bible-thumping radical zealot?

Most polling data showed that for the last year and a half, roughly half of all Republicans believed Barack Obama was born outside the United States. This has recently dropped to about 25%, with the release of the birth certificate. And the last polling data I saw on his religion showed 46% of Republicans believed he was Muslim. Haven't seen any recent data on that.

I made no aspersions to them being bible-thumpers, racists or zealots. Simply that they believe he's a Kenyan-born Muslim (Ok, so only 25% believed he was the Antichrist, according to a March 2010 Harris poll), despite no hard evidence to this effect and loads of evidence to the contrary.

The GOP is splintered into two factions at this point--the sane half (which are rapidly abandoning party ID to become independents...I have several friends in this camp) and the half I was referring to above, the ones who are unwavering in their belief that Obama is utterly an "other", an outsider, a "not one of us". Sadly, I know a few in this camp as well and it's becoming increasingly difficult to even have normal conversations with them.

The first faction are still unlikely to vote Obama, but are unlikely to strongly support any GOP nominee that comes out of the second faction. Most that I know will either vote 3rd party or stay home. The second faction wouldn't vote Obama if there was a gun to their head. Either way, I stand by my original assertion that there's minimal cost in "crossover" votes by taking a more neutral stance towards Israel, because those crossover votes simply aren't there.

[Strife26]

Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.



That is all I've got to say about that.