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[kilakan]

I've basically beaten hardmode, beaten all the bosses, all the dungeon dudes are easy as pie, and I beat the jungle temple like 9 times for laughs.  All without the invulnerabilty items, a philo stone, and most of the time even without wings.   The games controls really are pretty good actually, you just need to be good at them, and have experience with bullet hells.

A shield which is easy to get stops chain attacks, a chain item like the ivy whip lets you dodge without jump modifiers and speed boots are a purely personal choice.  They don't even tend to activate when you are dodging.

[Neonivek]

The games controls really are pretty good actually

Hmmm let me see...

a chain item like the ivy whip lets you dodge without jump modifiers and speed boots are a purely personal choice

Ahhh an arena. Which is an exploit. The Twins has the biggest Arena exploit oddly enough. You can breeze through that boss if you build your arena intelligently. I haven't yet but I noticed most of his attacks do not pierce cover.

The controls are not made with the bosses or enemies in mind. I learned how bad the controls are back when I fought Skeletor back when he had way too much health to kill without skipping dungeon tier. When I learned it was nearly impossible to jump his head, it became clear.

Just go back to Skeletor, don't build an arena, and don't wear any jump enhancement. You can do it, afterall I managed to fight him all night, but it shows the weakness of the controls.

a philo stone

Oddly enough I still don't have that item... I've grinding the heck for it but still don't have it.

[GlyphGryph]

...why would you call Arena's an exploit in what is in many ways a building game.

That's just silly.

[Silfurdreki]

a chain item like the ivy whip lets you dodge without jump modifiers and speed boots are a purely personal choice

Ahhh an arena. Which is an exploit.

Or, you know, a cave, where most non-boss combat takes place anyway. Also, how the hell is building an arena in a game where mining and building are two of the big features an exploit in any reasonable sense?

Edit: Ninja'd

[Neonivek]

...why would you call Arena's an exploit in what is in many ways a building game.

That's just silly.

I was told using the invulnerability item was an exploit FOR JUST HAVING IT, by forsaken.

Not using its exploit... just having it is considered an exploit.

Anyhow more it is because making an arena is taking advantage of the game's poor AI to beat the bosses.

Or, you know, a cave

He would have a mobility item if it was a cave. Which the point of the conversation is "How the controls are soo good you don't need them"

[Tiruin]

Having an item coded and configured in game..and using it...

I think your terminology of 'exploit' is mixed up a bit there.

[Darvi]

Leave him be, Nivek has empirically been proven to be unhappy unless he's contratrian.

[Neonivek]

Having an item coded and configured in game..and using it...

I think your terminology of 'exploit' is mixed up a bit there.

*Shrugs* I don't know either.

Also not my Terminology, Forsaken's.

Also YES I am aware that isn't what he meant. Though I think I should make this post longer.

None of this is true. I've killed the destroyer twice without wings and beaten many of the other hardmode bosses without exploiting the invulnerability time items. Just because you're bad at a game doesn't mean you can bash it and claim that your way is the only way to play it.

You are jumping to conclusions and assuming. That isn't what I meant at all and you should be fully aware of it.

I've basically beaten hardmode, beaten all the bosses, all the dungeon dudes are easy as pie, and I beat the jungle temple like 9 times for laughs.  All without the invulnerabilty items, a philo stone, and most of the time even without wings.   The games controls really are pretty good actually, you just need to be good at them, and have experience with bullet hells.

A shield which is easy to get stops chain attacks, a chain item like the ivy whip lets you dodge without jump modifiers and speed boots are a purely personal choice.  They don't even tend to activate when you are dodging.

You are still using, ULTIMATELY, the same strategy. You are using the shield to get out of chain attacks (which is what the invulnerability item is for), you are using a mobility item in order to move faster... and even then you are probably using chains of jump and runspeed items.

...why would you call Arena's an exploit in what is in many ways a building game.

That's just silly.

It is taking advantage of the AI's inability to handle arenas for the most part. If the game cannot handle something properly it is an exploit.

This is similar to shooting games where you camp corners because enemies will shuffle out of the corner badly.

Having an item coded and configured in game..and using it...

I think your terminology of 'exploit' is mixed up a bit there.

I was taking it out of Forsaken for harassing me, I am over it now and I am sorry Forsaken. I shouldn't act on it.

Leave him be, Nivek has empirically been proven to be unhappy unless he's contratrian.

And this is outright harassment

[Darkmere]

Yeah, if you weren't supposed to use arenas the game would force you not to (Golem). Dodging skeletron prime and the twins requires... the spacebar, not wings. My current character got all the way to end of spectre set without equipping the extended invulnerability items. Twins move faster than you with speedboots, so it's more about managing health regen and timing jumps than must-use spectre boots. Oh, and if you're going to use an argument, at least back it up as your own instead of fopping it off on someone else when you get called out on it.

So yeah, if you're bent on fighting things improperly (don't build in a building game, that's cheating) then I'm sure the necessary toolset is pretty narrow. But that's not the only option, nor should trying to make it so be a mark against the game.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I don't build arenas on principle (unless you consider covering open chasms with platforms "building an arena"), and just tend to use whatever I build in normal play. My hardmode character has wings and boots, but mostly because of spelunking, and because I lucked in on a "harpey" feather.

There is hardly an "optimal" build though. Nothing is "non-negotiable". It's entirely possible to beat hardmode bosses without some kind of "ultimate" build, and without endgame equipment. Hell, if I wasn't caught by the last Twins awakening when I was in the middle of decorating the ship, I might have actually killed them. How would you like to fight two murderous robo-eyeballs without fancy ammunition, a prepared taskbar, and so much as an Ironskin potion?

[Neonivek]

the spacebar, not wings

That uses the spacebar silly.

Twins move faster than you with speedboots

They are clumsy. You need to take advantage of that.

There is hardly an "optimal" build though. Nothing is "non-negotiable".

You REALLY don't get better mobility in the air then with the wings, and they are so easy to get on hard mode there is no reason (other then not using a Wiki... though Terraria often feels like it is made to do that).

You could use the Bunch of balloons, you could use the Hovershoes... heck the Jetpack even... but then you are just leaving yourself open.

I cannot imagine another optimal build moving in on that.

I used to use both the Shield and invulnerability frame item. Though I found that tossing the shield didn't change my combat effectiveness.

Though I am willing to admit hyperbole.

----

Also the boots that I use got another upgrade. They actually manage to be somewhat faster then the twins. I've been using that to avoid the Green flamethrower.

[forsaken1111]

In fact I am curious if you killed him without using any exploits or Post-Adamantine items.

Ehh who am I kidding... No one fights him without exploits.

I killed him in orichalcum armor using magic daggers. No 'exploits' really. I did use an autoclicker just to save my finger, but I can click manually faster than the autoclicker does.

[Neonivek]

Magic Daggers Post or pre 1.2?

And did you use the Blue Flower?

Because if it is Pre-1.2 without the blue flower... Then I am genuinely impressed since daggers are a single hit item if I remember correctly.

[forsaken1111]

Magic Daggers Post or pre 1.2?

Post 1.2... I didn't go back in time.

[Neonivek]

Magic Daggers Post or pre 1.2?

Post 1.2... I didn't go back in time.

Ok so there was no blue flower.

So I am mildly impressed. Magic daggers may have been REALLY pumped to obscene levels in 1.2... But they aren't the optimal equipment for the destroyer (assuming they don't multihit, which I don't think they do)

I think quite a few hard mode items need to be pumped up, because they are harder to get then their better alternative.