Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[baruk]

... a regular team that just happens to have Nidalee, Ezreal, and Sona, all great pokers? They don't need a big disengage because all of them have their own disengages, even Vi and Renekton.

Ezrael/Sona is more of a poke lane. The range is too low to contribute much in a siege, however Sona does provide some useful sustain during the extended team fights. The abundance of dashes gave AAA a lot of tactical flexibility - I don't think their strategy was set in stone after the picks phase, as might be the case with a specific "comp".
 To re-iterate my point: how useful is it to call something a poke comp, when they just have Nidalee? Nidalee got "fed" (by getting the enemy blue buff and charging up her tear quite early), so the late game poke became the deciding factor. I think there is a useful distinction between games that feature a fed Nidalee as the sole source of poke, and games that feature a poke comp.

[penguinofhonor]

If you don't think 1100 range on Ezreal's Q is enough for pre-team fight poke, then I don't know what you're on. And any cast-while-moving spells are useful in a poke situation, as well as team-wide speed boosts, as both contribute to being able to kite and poke the enemy as the try to initiate.

To re-iterate my point, it's a poke team comp cause it has multiple good pokers and multiple ways to enable good poking.

[baruk]

If you don't think 1100 range on Ezreal's Q is enough for pre-team fight poke, then I don't know what you're on.

I specified siege ie. long range poke, outside initiation range. Ezrael has mid-range poke, so he has to get into the danger zone to contribute.

it's a poke team comp cause it has multiple good pokers and multiple ways to enable good poking.

Is this a poke comp too? :
Giant's picks: Xin Zhao, Zyra, Caitlyn, Volibear, Twisted Fate
 Twisted Fate has range 1450 Wild Cards, Caitlyn's Piltover Peacemaker is 1300 (2000 for level 1 Ace in the Hole), Zyra's Thorn Spitters effectively have range 1575 (Rampant Growth/Deadly Bloom = 825 , Thorn Spitter = 750). They can use Zyra and Xin Zhao's ults to disengage, all they're lacking really is sustain.

  Trying to draw a distinction here between "poke comps" and "comps that happen to have poke". For me, it's unsatisfactory to use "poke comp" to describe any line-up that includes Nidalee. It's like suggesting that any team with Heimerdinger must be going for a 10 minute inhibitor push.

[Sharp]

But to be fair any team which has AP Nidalee has amazing poke. The base damage is huge and the ratio is ridiculous, I don't think there are many champs which can do 150% AP/bonus AD on a non-ulti ranged ability, just Jayce comes to mind.

I'm not saying Nidalee is OP though because AP Nidalee just relies on Q and is much more useless in a close fight but a Nidalee on her own makes it extremely hard to baron or dragon, not only can she out-damage a smite but she can just pick off people so easily even when blind.

TF has similar range and cooldown but does much less scary damage even though he has potential to do more overall to an enemy team.

[Orangebottle]

Champions are only OP if you think they are. Everyone has different opinions on what is/isn't overpowered, and we will always disagree.

Except with Darius.
Nobody thinks he isn't OP.

[frostshotgg]

Correction on that last bit:
Nobody who plays/has played Dota believes he's op.

The problem with Darius is that he doesn't follow League's normal design philosophy. He is low-risk high-reward champion in an environment of medium-risk medium-reward. For comparison: Take one step out of line against Garen, he'll combo you and you might just barely survive, or if he has R, you die. Fortunately, his R will be down for another minute by the time you get back to lane, giving you a good bit of lee-way. Take one step out of line against Darius, and he combos you and you die. If his initial combo doesn't, his dot will. When you get back to lane, you basically have lost the laning phase, because he'll dive you if you ever dip below full health. If you shut him down in lane, he doesn't stay shutdown. That's the critical difference.

[Graven]

Here is Darius' pick/ban rate in tournaments : IEM Katowice : Picked/banned 0 times; IEM Sao Paulo : Picked/banned 0 times, IEM Cologne : Picked 1 time; IEM Singapore : Picked 1 time, Banned 1 time. Truly, the OPest champion of our times.

He's OP in the low leagues and as a counterpick, occasionally.

edit : "Except with Darius.
Nobody thinks he isn't OP."

But yeah, I could be a bit of a dick :| Been having way too many unreasonable situations occur.

Also, does anyone play Zyra on Dominion? I got stomped once because my team had very little poke and the enemy team had Heimer top, and I suspect Zyra will be even stronger, since she has better CC and nearly the same point-defence capabilities, but I'd like some confirmation before I spend the IP.

[frostshotgg]

I don't think we are saying darius is anything approaching OP. I think you're being a bit of a dick.

[Orangebottle]

Here is Darius' pick/ban rate in tournaments : IEM Katowice : Picked/banned 0 times; IEM Sao Paulo : Picked/banned 0 times, IEM Cologne : Picked 1 time; IEM Singapore : Picked 1 time, Banned 1 time. Truly, the OPest champion of our times.

He's OP in the low leagues and as a counterpick, occasionally.

Why are you citing tourney stuff? The average league player is nowhere near that level.

[Sharp]

Yeah it's pretty bad to try and compare 5vs5 ranked and Solo/Duo Queue let alone Pro 5vs5.

You know who you are playing against in tournaments and you know what champions and team compositions they play as, it's ridiculous to try and use picks and bans in tournaments to compare with Solo/Duo Queue.

Might as well compare Dominions strategies with Summoner's Rift.

[Graven]

Because it's meaningless to consider balance in soloqueue when so many different factors emerge, not least of which is player skill. You can't exactly neglect the great majority of players [who incidentally suck] - for example the extreme nerfs Shaco has gone through, but you can't base your balance entirely on them if you want your game to be considered as a viable e-sport the way League of Legends does.

So the great majority of players saying "X is OP/UP" carries absolutely no meaning or significance, since the playground is not, and will never be, level. That's why Zyra was nerfed right after release, even though many people considered her fine. This is also the reason for the relatively high difference in champion picks in pro play and soloqueue. Champions like Darius, who have low skill ceiling, are a lot more powerful the worse the players you're facing are.

So that's the reason I'm linking championship information when talking balance, since I don't believe there's anything else worth linking if we want to be objective.

[frostshotgg]

In fact, it's not the players who suck that made shaco get nerfed. It's the players who don't suck that caused it. He was stomping gold/plat so hard.

[webadict]

Because it's meaningless to consider balance in soloqueue when so many different factors emerge, not least of which is player skill. You can't exactly neglect the great majority of players [who incidentally suck] - for example the extreme nerfs Shaco has gone through, but you can't base your balance entirely on them if you want your game to be considered as a viable e-sport the way League of Legends does.

So the great majority of players saying "X is OP/UP" carries absolutely no meaning or significance, since the playground is not, and will never be, level. That's why Zyra was nerfed right after release, even though many people considered her fine. This is also the reason for the relatively high difference in champion picks in pro play and soloqueue. Champions like Darius, who have low skill ceiling, are a lot more powerful the worse the players you're facing are.

So that's the reason I'm linking championship information when talking balance, since I don't believe there's anything else worth linking if we want to be objective.

What? Zyra was OP at release. She had many things a mid would want with no downsides: Damage, Range, CC, Burst, Sustained Damage. The only thing she really lacked was a defensive spell, but who cares if she manages to kill everyone anyhow.

You're better off using Olaf as an example. Olaf has one of the lowest win rates in soloqueue. Even before his nerfs, he had less than 50% win rate, yet he was a top pick in tournaments, which is why he received the nerfs.

[Jopax]

And with a single change Darius is now pretty ok as far as his early game snowballing is concerned.

[Knirisk]

In the 3.03 patch preview, did anyone notice that they stopped Kassadin's nether blade from affecting the inhibitors or the nexus? Sounds like they didn't want a repeat of xPeke.