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[Jiri Petru]

Given the percentage of non-humans living in cities, there should be a lively trade in goods for these minorities as well.

At the least, inhabitant race should have an impact on demand for specific racial items in the overall trade balance of a comunity/site.

Ideally, clothings wouldn't even be sold in shops - you'd either have to order a tailor-made piece (if you were rich), or purchase cloth and have your wife stitch something (if you were poor). Clothing shops are a result of industrial revolution and mas productions.

But I guess the same goes for most other DF industries as well (for example, I don't think there should be furniture shops). The game is full of anachronisms. Except bees. Those are historically correct, for some reason. 

[Lac]

I didn't see anything that could be the warehouses Toady talked about in earlier devlog posts though.

Neoskel, found this for you:

Huh. In the schematics, there are pretty big dark-gray buildings with thick lines around them, one for each town. Where these buildings are in Toady's embark area, only their empty ceiling area is shown, and they have many internal walls. Are those warehouses, perhaps?

Yeah, those are the warehouses.  Fill every tile in them with random items of every variety you see in the shops and you have the picture.  Bins in time.

[eux0r]

toady, what percentage of the game or how many features(just a number is enough for me), if anything at all, would you personally consider finished(in the sense of not being a placeholder for something else to come)?

[...] on the subject of version numbering, 0.31 referred at the time to 31 of the specific dev 100 core items being finished.  Then we changed dev systems and the version number was on hold for a while.  Now it refers to being 0% complete done with a new list that counts for 0.69 of the version number, but the new slightly unsettled list pretty much corresponds to the old core items, so it's not much of a change.

The old core items are listed here.

i have the impression im seriously unable to formulate my questions the right way, cause i often get answers id not have expected: im aware there are those goals(although thanks for finding that link again) but its like one could say "goal XYZ is implemented" and deduce from the version-number how many 'XYZ's there are but its obvious counting stuff like "hauling is implemented" would be wrong. and that one is just the most obvious example, there are others like ghosts(does the possesion thing that was mentioned make ghost like they exist right now a placeholder for the final ghosts? what about more ways of getting ghosts and what factors influence what type you get? whats the placeholder here?), or shops or tables(will one always be able to walk through them? does that count as the furniture itself being a placeholder? or is it just a placeholder for walking-mechanics?)...
well anyways i hope that makes clear what i wanted to ask if not, ill try asking 'from the other side':


toady, how many percent of the implemented content would you consider still being a place-holder for a more complex/different/somehow overhauled version? (im not expecting more than a subjective guess here)

hm, i have the impression the towns dont really feel natural or logical. dont get me wrong, i think they really look awesome and interesting, just not too much like real towns. but i might also be totally off, i guess one needs to walk in them as an adventurer first to be able to get an impression of whats really going on.

Do you mean they don't look like real modern towns or real medieval towns?
I think they are very organic-looking. They don't look planned in any way. There are a lot of details lacking (like windows  on the houses, bins, proper floors (at least on the shops) and workshops (where the goods are produced?)

i guess for me, its a massing of smaller stuff like:
-buildings being forced to the same height for big parts and too high buildings
-2-square-thick-walls where a singe wall would be used
-strange wall-like 1-square-long hills(/dunes?) or pits
-placement of furniture and items in a way i can absolutely not understand(storage as the entrance-room / rooms with randomly scattered tables, cabinets, beds(a bed in the middle of a room?) and chairs / ... )
-inaccessible spaces(surrounded by buildings and no doors towards the surrounded space)
-stretched buildings with 4 rooms in a row and decreasing amounts of content starting from the entrance

so overall they just dont look like any town, neither modern nor medieval, because there is too much stuff where i would think: wtf, who would _do_ something like that?
but while all those things are problems, i assume toady is well aware of, youre absolutely right that on first glance they look very organic and have a good overall feel.

EDIT:
if anyone feels any of my formatting of the text is sub-optimal please feel free to tell me, every suggestion on improving the readability is welcome

[BishopX]

Given the percentage of non-humans living in cities, there should be a lively trade in goods for these minorities as well.

At the least, inhabitant race should have an impact on demand for specific racial items in the overall trade balance of a comunity/site.

Ideally, clothings wouldn't even be sold in shops - you'd either have to order a tailor-made piece (if you were rich), or purchase cloth and have your wife stitch something (if you were poor). Clothing shops are a result of industrial revolution and mas productions.

But I guess the same goes for most other DF industries as well (for example, I don't think there should be furniture shops). The game is full of anachronisms. Except bees. Those are historically correct, for some reason. 

Durable goods, such as furniture, were produced and then sold prior to the industrial revolution. If you look at colonial era American furniture, much of it was produced and then shipped long distances before it was sold (e.g. there wasn't much of a furniture industry in the American south, most of the high quality furniture was imported from the mid Atlantic and new England).

The other issue is that there isn't any public/domestic distinction in DF. Things that would normally be done within a household are done in public instead. If people are going to get all of their meals from a public kitchen workshop, then they might as well get all their clothes and furniture from similar institutions.

A quick aside on the topic of clothing, left and right shoes were introduced early in the industrial revolution. Prior to that everything except from armored boots were produced to fit on both feet.

[Aqizzar]

I noticed another bug in one of the maps.  On the east, middle-ish side of the first city-

Spoiler: Room with three walls. (click to show/hide)

[Untelligent]

-placement of furniture and items in a way i can absolutely not understand(storage as the entrance-room / rooms with randomly scattered tables, cabinets, beds(a bed in the middle of a room?) and chairs / ... )

so overall they just dont look like any town, neither modern nor medieval, because there is too much stuff where i would think: wtf, who would _do_ something like that?

Well, for starters, you just described my garage.

[monk12]

I noticed another bug in one of the maps.  On the east, middle-ish side of the first city

Spoiler: Room with three walls. (click to show/hide)

It's not a bug, its a feature! Toady has implemented Gazebos.

[Organum]

Am I the only one who saw a devlog for today? e_e I'm sure it was there, it said something about setting up the basis for the raws of the final 112 (or so) sponsorship creatures.

Edit:

:| It's back now, crisis averted.

[Dante]

kitty cat head-bumps

touch-range curses

Just throwing that out there... 

[Osmosis Jones]

kitty cat head-bumps

touch-range curses

Just throwing that out there... 

Hmmmm wonder if there's anyway to effect a character's luck (a la martial trance, but in reverse). Modded in black cats would be awesome.

[monk12]

According to the dev log, there is already a bad luck curse- I know Toady discussed it in the post here shortly after it was mentioned.

Also, kitty cat head-bumps sounds awesome, but I'm curious to see how it comes up in game. I'm waiting to see a legendary cat start bumping dwarven legs off in its bid for attention.

[Psieye]

I just know I will mod in an adventurer race with contact syndromes now to simulate explosive kung fu.

[atomfullerene]

It's not a bug, its a feature! Toady has implemented Gazebos.
[/quote]

You must face the Gazebo alone!

[Neonivek]

I am trying a bit too hard to be impartial towards Dwarf Fortress... I think I may have jumped a bit too far the other way.

Though I still think it is important to have some negative say... Jumping on something and then going "Is it REALLY fixed?" is kinda going towards the line of silly.

It is interesting that Toady actually added "Cleaning" for animals who actually have the ability to effectively clean themselves. Such as Cats who essentially have Soap like saliva.

Now maybe Cats will be able to clean the several layers of crud off of things.

[zwei]

Now maybe Cats will be able to clean the several layers of crud off of things.

What could possibly go wrong when cat licks off some FB blood from its paws and swallows it...