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Author Topic: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)  (Read 729347 times)

Draignean

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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #9585 on: December 12, 2016, 10:32:36 am »

I've been a fish these past months x_x
Good news is planning to revamp my RtD and run another one before the end of this year. Hopefully :P
And send NAV the RtD Formatting guide and stuff. Because I'm finally free from academics other than OJT next year \o/

Do we still have a mechanics testing thread? :-X I'm trying to find out if HP based games run better with armor being an additional to HP or if it's better to remove damage from rolls. The former seems better since it covers the general idea of being armored while the latter seems better for more lighthearted games that aren't that mechanics heavy.

...And I haven't been that exact with how heavy I'm even planning >__> I'd love tips though.

Personally, I find a hybrid approach to cover the idea of armor well and also provide good mechanics. Instead of just having armor be an additional HP pool, or having armor be flat damage reduction,  make it so that armor absorbs up until a certain point and takes part of the damage.

How much the armor absorbs and how much damage it takes can be fun to play with, and it allows for the other two types of armor to be specific subsets. For example, consider these the stats

Armor Points: HP for armor.
Armor Threshold: How much damage the armor can negate from a single attack. Damage above the threshold goes to HP.
Armor Soak: Percentage of how much damage (rounding up) the armor takes when it blocks an attack.

This means that,

Armor Points:  X
Armor Threshold: INF (Just a really large number for RTD purposes)
Armor Soak: 100

represents the option where armor operates as a layer of bonus health, and

Armor Points:  (Doesn't matter)
Armor Threshold: X (How much damage you want the armor to reduce by)
Armor Soak: 0

represents the option where the armor operates as a flat reduction against damage.  So, this system gives you the power of those, but it also lets you have things like,

Armor Points:  3
Armor Threshold: 1000
Armor Soak: 0.1

which is a piece of armor/shielding/magical aegis that essentially locks out the first three attacks that hit it, pretty much regardless of power, then breaks.
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Draignean

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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #9586 on: December 13, 2016, 03:17:14 am »

Double posting, but for a good cause.

This is the output of the initial run of the the health diagnostics, for a mech in perfect condition.
Code: [Select]
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Undamaged Modules: 18/18
Undamaged Frames: 18/18

Overal Hit Points: 1080/1080
0 [||||||||||||||||||||] 1080
Overal Armor Points: 1080/1080
0 [||||||||||||||||||||] 1080

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
This is the output of the initial run for the basic test case, where all modules are destroyed.

Code: [Select]
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Undamaged Modules: 0/18
Undamaged Frames: 18/18

Overal Hit Points: 900/1080
0 [|||||||||||||||||   ] 1080
Overal Armor Points: 900/1080
0 [|||||||||||||||||   ] 1080

head:
Frame HP: 50/50
Frame Armor: 50/50
Base_Cockpit Module HP: 0/10
Base_Cockpit Module Armor: 0/10
core:
Frame HP: 50/50
Frame Armor: 50/50
Basic_Reactor Module HP: 0/10
Basic_Reactor Module Armor: 0/10
lchest:
Frame HP: 50/50
Frame Armor: 50/50
Base_Plating Module HP: 0/10
Base_Plating Module Armor: 0/10
lhip:
Frame HP: 50/50
Frame Armor: 50/50
Basic_Laser Module HP: 0/10
Basic_Laser Module Armor: 0/10
lleg:
Frame HP: 50/50
Frame Armor: 50/50
Basic_Booster Module HP: 0/10
Basic_Booster Module Armor: 0/10
lleg_leg2:
Frame HP: 50/50
Frame Armor: 50/50
Base_Plating Module HP: 0/10
Base_Plating Module Armor: 0/10
lleg_leg3:
Frame HP: 50/50
Frame Armor: 50/50
Base_Foot Module HP: 0/10
Base_Foot Module Armor: 0/10
larm:
Frame HP: 50/50
Frame Armor: 50/50
Basic_Rocket Module HP: 0/10
Basic_Rocket Module Armor: 0/10
larm_arm2:
Frame HP: 50/50
Frame Armor: 50/50
Base_Plating Module HP: 0/10
Base_Plating Module Armor: 0/10
larm_arm3:
Frame HP: 50/50
Frame Armor: 50/50
Basic_Chainsword Module HP: 0/10
Basic_Chainsword Module Armor: 0/10
rchest:
Frame HP: 50/50
Frame Armor: 50/50
Base_Plating Module HP: 0/10
Base_Plating Module Armor: 0/10
rhip:
Frame HP: 50/50
Frame Armor: 50/50
Basic_Laser Module HP: 0/10
Basic_Laser Module Armor: 0/10
rleg:
Frame HP: 50/50
Frame Armor: 50/50
Basic_Booster Module HP: 0/10
Basic_Booster Module Armor: 0/10
rleg_leg2:
Frame HP: 50/50
Frame Armor: 50/50
Base_Plating Module HP: 0/10
Base_Plating Module Armor: 0/10
rleg_leg3:
Frame HP: 50/50
Frame Armor: 50/50
Base_Foot Module HP: 0/10
Base_Foot Module Armor: 0/10
rarm:
Frame HP: 50/50
Frame Armor: 50/50
Basic_Rocket Module HP: 0/10
Basic_Rocket Module Armor: 0/10
rarm_arm2:
Frame HP: 50/50
Frame Armor: 50/50
Base_Plating Module HP: 0/10
Base_Plating Module Armor: 0/10
rarm_arm3:
Frame HP: 50/50
Frame Armor: 50/50
Basic_Chainsword Module HP: 0/10
Basic_Chainsword Module Armor: 0/10
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

It needs refinement, and additions to tell how many modules are disables/destroyed/glitched/bleeding, and a priority display for damage modules, but it's functional. Still have to get power/weight loading diagnostics and module diagnostics going, but the framework is in place.
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lawastooshort

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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #9587 on: December 13, 2016, 09:22:31 am »

Also do let me know if you manage to get a game together, I'd like to give making a sheet a shot.

Yes me too, Tiruin
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Draignean

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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #9588 on: December 13, 2016, 02:14:20 pm »

Also do let me know if you manage to get a game together, I'd like to give making a sheet a shot.

Yes me too, Tiruin

Yes, now that I have a little free time, I would certainly like to try my hand at a sheet.

Speaking of a little free time, more diagnostics! The power section of the power/weight diagnostic is up...
Code: [Select]
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Power Diagnostic
Power Use Power Gen. Net Power
       0         10        10
-100% [||||||||||O||||||||||] +100%

Capacitor Charge: 50/50
0 [||||||||||||||||||||] 50
Turns until fully charged: 0.0
0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O
Underpowered Sections:
head:
Frame Power: 0/3
Base_Cockpit Module Power: 0/1
core:
Frame Power: 0/3
Basic_Reactor Module Power: 0/3
lchest:
Frame Power: 0/3
Base_Plating Module Power: 0/1
lhip:
Frame Power: 0/3
Basic_Laser Module Power: 0/3
lleg:
Frame Power: 0/3
Basic_Booster Module Power: 0/5
lleg_leg2:
Frame Power: 0/3
Base_Plating Module Power: 0/1
lleg_leg3:
Frame Power: 0/3
Base_Foot Module Power: 0/1
larm:
Frame Power: 0/3
Basic_Rocket Module Power: 0/3
larm_arm2:
Frame Power: 0/3
Base_Plating Module Power: 0/1
larm_arm3:
Frame Power: 0/3
Basic_Chainsword Module Power: 0/3
rchest:
Frame Power: 0/3
Base_Plating Module Power: 0/1
rhip:
Frame Power: 0/3
Basic_Laser Module Power: 0/3
rleg:
Frame Power: 0/3
Basic_Booster Module Power: 0/5
rleg_leg2:
Frame Power: 0/3
Base_Plating Module Power: 0/1
rleg_leg3:
Frame Power: 0/3
Base_Foot Module Power: 0/1
rarm:
Frame Power: 0/3
Basic_Rocket Module Power: 0/3
rarm_arm2:
Frame Power: 0/3
Base_Plating Module Power: 0/1
rarm_arm3:
Frame Power: 0/3
Basic_Chainsword Module Power: 0/3
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


EDIT: and the simplistic loading diagnostic...
Code: [Select]
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Weight and Loading Diagnostic

Current Load: 180/200
0 [||||||||||||||||||  ] 200

Current Speed Factor: 0
Functional Feet: 2/2
0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O
Feet:
lleg_leg3:
Base_Foot Loading: 0/100
rleg_leg3:
Base_Foot Loading: 0/100
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 02:48:01 pm by Draignean »
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Parsely

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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #9589 on: December 13, 2016, 02:49:42 pm »

This already looks like a huge pain in the ass, Draig, but please continue.
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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #9590 on: December 13, 2016, 02:50:09 pm »

A man leaves to do finals for a few days and suddenly people are turning his half finished ideas into java gadgets.

Damn, I'll have to actually finish this now...

Draignean

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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #9591 on: December 13, 2016, 03:02:38 pm »

A man leaves to do finals for a few days and suddenly people are turning his half finished ideas into java gadgets.

This is how I operate. My thesis was based off something my sister idly wondered at dinner once.

This already looks like a huge pain in the ass, Draig, but please continue.

To program? A bit. We're somewhere around 2k lines I think. Thirteen class files (not all of them are instantiable, but still), but the beauty of it is that once it's actually written, it's going to be the easiest thing in the world.

Each round the pilots get the diagnostics back from their mechs, that tells them everything internal to their mech they need to mech decisions, which mechs the only responsibility of the GM describing the Kaiju mech-that-is-no-mech and filling the flavor texts. The system is the mechs best thing to having an extra DM to handle the fiddly stuff.

The way it's set up, mech actions will likely be submitted in a sort of pseudo-programming format where the users mech lists of 3-5 (depending on the rules) actions. The actions will look something like

[PROTECT (section)]
[REROUTE (section)]
[REDUCE POWER (section) (amount)]
[ACTIVATE (section) {if targetable (target)}]
etc

So that these are fed into the program, the program  operates the mechs and mechs the diagnostics which the DM gives back to the players to mech new actions.

Mechs for the Mech throne.
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lawastooshort

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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #9592 on: December 13, 2016, 03:31:45 pm »

This is how I operate. My thesis was based off something my sister idly wondered at dinner once.

You wrote a thesis on Draignean, where is the mustard?
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Draignean

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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #9593 on: December 13, 2016, 03:35:57 pm »

Actually, we were talking about the internal parasites of goats (my parents and my sister are currently goat farmers part-time), and we ended up talking about fecal egg counting.

Essential my thesis was on
"Why couldn't we just have a computer do that?"

Which is possibly the best question to ask about anything.
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lawastooshort

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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #9594 on: December 13, 2016, 03:43:00 pm »

Very good :)
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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #9595 on: December 13, 2016, 04:58:07 pm »

A man leaves to do finals for a few days and suddenly people are turning his half finished ideas into java gadgets.

This is how I operate. My thesis was based off something my sister idly wondered at dinner once.

This already looks like a huge pain in the ass, Draig, but please continue.

To program? A bit.
OH, I thought this was all being done by hand. Nevermind. Carry on.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 05:00:43 pm by GUNINANRUNIN »
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Draignean

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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #9596 on: December 13, 2016, 05:01:03 pm »

A man leaves to do finals for a few days and suddenly people are turning his half finished ideas into java gadgets.

This is how I operate. My thesis was based off something my sister idly wondered at dinner once.

This already looks like a huge pain in the ass, Draig, but please continue.

To program? A bit.
OH, I thought this was a forum game. Nevermind. Carry on.

Well, it has the potential to be a forum game. It's a program that runs the entirety of the background calculations, so those things in the code tags are generated via commands, rather than made by hand. I don't even want to think about how much effort it would take to write out a complete mech diagnostic by hand.

The specific game doesn't matter that much, the program is just to run combat mechanics.
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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #9597 on: December 13, 2016, 08:27:17 pm »

I've got a bit of time between tests here so let me throw down some example numbers and shit to help you (and me) get a better handle on the system.

So lets start most basic, right? It's what you'd start with in game before you researched anything.  The basic frame would be quite lacking in terms of slots and have iffy stats.  For instance it might have the following slots

1 head
1 chest
2 per arm
1 pelvis
1 per leg.

Now, armor does not take a slot, it's built in over slots so you can always throw on armor. The main restraint on being a great big mech armadillo is the fact that armor costs money and has weight. Slower means getting hit more, so you need to balance your ability to dodge with your ability to take a hit if you mess up.  In case you're wondering the way I'm considering running weight and its effect on speed is like this:

Your weight maximum and your speed are basically the same number, but multiplied by 100. So if the frame's base speed is 12, it means that the weight capacity is 1200.  And when you add weight to that, you subtract from that number and that eventually subtracts from the speed of the frame. For instance, if the weight capacity is 1200 and I slap on 500 weight, the amount left is 700 and my unit's speed drops to 7.  Simple, right? And parts that increase your max load will increase your speed by making it easier to carry more.  Oh and in case you're wondering, the frame itself has weight, but it only comes into play if a limb or something is lost. For instance, an arm might weight 300 units, so when a mech loses its arm in combat, it gains a +3 speed bonus because it is lighter.

So our basic frame would have 9 total slots and each part would have its base HP.  For this starter frame lets call it 50 HP per limb or head section and then 100 HP in the chest. Now, I want to start putting stuff into this thing to get it running. The basic cockpit can only go in the head, and the basic reactor only goes in the core, so those slots are filled just to get the thing running. The reactor is pretty heavy  and robust (100 HP) but the cockpit is light (20 HP) so we're still running pretty fast.  In terms of weapons there are a few choices. Energy weapons use a lot of power but they usually have no ammo restrictions and are good against certain armors. Powered kinetic weapons such as rail guns or pile drivers deal more damage than standard kinetic weapons but usually require both power and ammo. And Kinetic weapons like cannons and missiles need minimal power (Ie in terms of drawing energy from the reactor they need zero, but if wiring is damaged they can still be rendered unusable), but are usually weaker and have strict ammo restrictions. Of course, this isn't universally true for anything, just a general idea. 

I want to stick a tesla arc (50 HP) into the fist of my mech, because the only thing better than a big ass punch is a big ass punch that also has lightning on it. Tesla arcs are energy weapons, and drain a big chunk of power each time they're used, regardless of if you hit or not.  For sake of example, lets say that my reactor  can put out 300 power each turn, and can store 1000 in reserve.  The frame has its own requirements, though they're fairly minimal . Lets say combined, all the parts of the frame eat 50 power total a turn to remain active. So we have an effective 250 power per turn. This assumes you're running the frame parts on optimal settings, you could run minimal and have decreased stats or max and boost your stats. We'll assume optimal for now. My tesla arc has a minimum power of 300 to use once, but has an internal battery that can store up to 900 energy. As such, I'm probably gonna set the power systems such that at least 50 or so power is automatically routed to those batteries each turn, just so I'll have some power built up for using it.

In the pelvis I'm gonna put a big ass missile. Because innuendo.  And though that missile takes no power, it is pretty heavy, so it slows my mech down a fair bit. In order to compensate, I'm gonna stick a hydraulics booster in the right leg, increasing my carry weight and thus negating some of the speed loss.  I'm also gonna stick a targeting system in my cockpit. It takes energy to use it, but it gives a bonus to hit with the missile and makes targeted attacks easier.

Next I'll give my mech a ranged weapon. In this case I'm gonna go with an external weapon, one the mech will hold in its hand rather than one built into the arm. External weapons are good in that they don't take up slots, but bad in that they tend to be somewhat limited. Melee external weapons are all basic kinetics (at least at start) that can be knocked from your hand or destroyed, and ranged weapons have less ammo than integrated counterparts.  But they can be ditched without specialized cockpit systems. In this case I'm gonna give my mech a scatter gun, A tri-barrel giant shotgun that fires a cloud of shrapnel. It hits lots of parts, but does low overall damage.

At this point I'm happy with the loadout so I'm gonna armor up a bit. I'll stick another hydraulic booster in the leg, to get some more carry capacity, and then put two layers of armor (50 each) on the head and 1 layer on the chest. Then 1 layer on both slots on the melee arm, just to prevent it from being severed so easily.  The head has 170 HP at this point, the chest 250, and the melee arm has 100 on the top slot and 150 on the tesla arc slot. I've got some funding left so what I'm gonna do last is throw a Limiter Override console into the cockpit and specifically leave it powered down. Powered down consoles use no energy but their functions can't be accessed in this state and it takes a turn or two for them to boot up once powered.


And  thats a rough idea of what building a mech would be like, obviously with numbers just made up off the top of my head and a lot of stuff abstracted or assumed. Still, it gives you an idea how it will function.  I'll probably do a little showing of how it behaves in combat next....

Draignean

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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #9598 on: December 13, 2016, 09:25:40 pm »

Alright, literally all of that is capable of being simulated on the current system, with one major and one minor exception.

Major
Armor, in the current system, is a basic attribute of pretty much everything that can be broken. However, it really can't be increased, per-module, outside of making a better version of the same part and re-manufacturing. The way you can get around this, and up-armor a mech, is to install an armor module. Armor modules have next to no chance of most malfunctions, high armor values, and fair HP. Armor modules also have the special ability that they have a chance to intercept attacks made to linked sections. This is the reason why, in the example mech, there are armor panels in the middle of each arm.

Minor
Speed is also a function entirely of the special foot module. Each foot has a load max and a max speed factor. The load max is the max load that the particular foot can bear, and the speed factor is the ideal max speed that it could produce at minimal load. So, if the foot has a speed factor of 10, then it has a speed of 10 at 0% load, and a speed of 5 at 50% load, and will have a speed of 1 for 90%-100%.  This can create a trade-off between foot modules that have very high load maximums, and ones that have decent speed factors. For multiple limbs, the load is automatically distributed evenly, but it can also be manually distributed, just as one would evenly distribute power. For asymmetric load levels (A quadruped design with light front legs and powerful back legs), the speed of the mech is the speed of the slowest foot.

Oh, and a slight PPE to this. As the overall size of the mech increases, the chance to hit a part of it (not necessarily the part you targeted) increases. So while a centipede with a hundred legs can reach a close to optimal speed factor, it's going to be incredibly power hungry, and while it's fast and it's going to be hard as hell to hit a specific part, it would be almost impossible to miss it entirely.

I have no idea if the systems we're creating will be compatible, but it's rather interesting.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 11:52:32 pm by Draignean »
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piecewise

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Re: Roller's Block (RTD Brainstorming Thread) (HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY) (Derm is 5k)
« Reply #9599 on: December 13, 2016, 11:20:50 pm »

One thing I should point out, now that I'm back home and sitting down is that there's a hard division between the player and the mech. Players aren't mechs, mechs aren't players. Players have their own stats and mechs have their own stats, but they interact. Lemme explain.

So your player has some basic stats like strength and dex (these might come in handy for certain "on foot" things) but most of the game is gonna be mech fighting and as such the important stats will more than likely be their pilot related stats. For instance, lets say (Because these aren't set in stone yet) players have a stat called "Reflexes" and that corresponds to a Mech's stat of "Dexterity".  In combat, the player rolls Reflexes to dodge enemy attacks and to aim their own using their mech. However, Reflexes and Mech Dexterity are co-limiting factors: players can never get a roll that is higher than the lowest stat. For instance, if the player has a reflexes of 6 and the Mech has dexterity of 10, then the player will never roll greater than 6. Which is fairly obvious: the pilot just isn't good enough to push the machine to its limits. The opposite is also true, a player with 10 reflexes in a 6 dex mech won't be able to roll higher than 6 because, no matter how fast he reacts, the mech only moves so quickly.

In this way the skill of the pilot and the capacities of the mech both matter, and great pilots need great mechs to truly shine. 

One additional interesting thing is this: As they level up, players will not only start having the ability to roll higher, but they'll lose their lower numbers. As such, players with some skill in combat won't only roll high, they'll stop rolling low. And this means that a really good pilot will be able to control even a low level mech better than a low level pilot.
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