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[Tsuchigumo550]

Working it out- I was thinking of it in game terms, meaning there are things to balance. Base stats are wild and mix reliably- on normal result, they even out. Take units with 50HP and 100HP base stats, you're very likely to get 75HP. However, stat GROWTH is given in a different style- each class tends to lower growth when available. Let's say you have a fast unit who's getting faster very often, and a fast unit who won't get much faster. This means that your unit will likely get slower, as both values are 1 for gain heredity. If you have a unit bred of two fast-growing units met with a slow-growing, that's 2 vs 1, which means that the higher growth is more likely. I haven't figured out how to balance this exactly, but I do know that growth can't work the same way, or minmaxing will become severe even with people not going for that. Maybe each base class has a growth heredity that adds or something. I just don't know.

[Unholy_Pariah]

well if you work it out gimme a pm so i can join from the very start.

also if i join as an axeman+necromancer can i play as a mortal reaper?

[Tsuchigumo550]

I need some sort of huge-ass list of base classes, though honestly I can always come up with stats on the fly for surprise entries. Spellswords, often a common available from start class, wouldn't count, so there are some exceptions...

Axe fighter would mean beserker, in a sense, and a necromancer is a mage based around spawning and death.

The way i see it, you'd get a pretty good unit- you're making up for the mage's weaknesses.

The necromancer would have low HP even among the squishy mage genre, but the burly axeman has very high HP. I'd expect somewhere in the middle for a starting value, possibly skewed to the necromancer due to the necromantic art taking a toll on the user

MP is also middling, but slightly higher for reasons of necromagic again.

Strength, or whatever value takes it, is again middling.
Int is relatively high, considering. Since I assume we aren't talking full on berserker.
Dex is low on all fronts, though. Slow is the axe and slow is the mage.
Move speed is also pretty bad.

You would have nice up-close attacks with your axe, and likely be able to raise anyone you slay to your own side, as well as enchanting your axe to do poison damage (decay).

[Unholy_Pariah]

to be honest i didn't really want a berserker parent but scythes seemed closer to axes then they did to spears, i suppose a halberdier might have worked though...

ill figure that out later if you actually run the game.

how about taking the standard D&D class list then removing all the hybrid and prestige/epic classes from the list of available ancestors whilst simultaneously forcing wizards to choose a magic sphere or element like "healer" or "pyromancer"

it would give you a hefty lump of classes and you can add a few more if they seem balanced enough.

[flabort]

So, let me see if I understand this alright.

If I took the closest thing I could to a Beastmaster, let's say the closest thing is a Ranger/Berserker blend. And the Summoner would be a squishy mage too.
HP would be mid/high for the first blending, and then made lower (to a sort of middle ground). The growths would be OK to good.
MP would be low for the Beastmaster, but then the Summoner would make it middle ground again. The growths would be kinda low.
Strength would be mid/high, but then drop a bit due to Summoner. Growths'd be fine.
Int wouldn't be bad, I don't think, though I assume growths'd be cr**.
Dex'd be right out low.
And probably move would be somewhat better then the average, but not great.

Am I doing that right?

[Tsuchigumo550]

So, let me see if I understand this alright.

If I took the closest thing I could to a Beastmaster, let's say the closest thing is a Ranger/Berserker blend. And the Summoner would be a squishy mage too.
HP would be mid/high for the first blending, and then made lower (to a sort of middle ground). The growths would be OK to good.
MP would be low for the Beastmaster, but then the Summoner would make it middle ground again. The growths would be kinda low.
Strength would be mid/high, but then drop a bit due to Summoner. Growths'd be fine.
Int wouldn't be bad, I don't think, though I assume growths'd be cr**.
Dex'd be right out low.
And probably move would be somewhat better then the average, but not great.

Am I doing that right?

Honestly, I didn't use a berserker- the stats are similar, but the abilities weren't.

I also think that's about right, and you can see where I'm getting a whole lot of problems. See how many stats middle out? I might need to do a sort of roll for heredity on a d20- 1 and 2 takes lowest possible outcome, 3-5 are closer to the lower result, 6-14 are what you'd expect, 15-18 are higher than average, and 19-20 are take highest result.

This could also allow me to do the same thing for growth.

Intentions have a lot to do with outcomes I'd imagine. That would be one way of going about a Beastmaster, you'd be more like a hunter (Ranger+Berserker would have a lot of versatility, has high-damage arrows and close-up blade skills) that learned to control beasts (through Summoner). You'd retain the all-around combat skills ala Berserker- all of them carry some form of backlash, you're pretty crazy- but you can also summon things like bears and have them listen to you.

You could also mix Druid and Summoner, and be able to summon all sorts of forest creatures, but have much different abilities and stats. I don't really have a system for combat or anything set up, but INT would reduce mana drain, STR would... have some combat effect, probably increasing damage dealt on a successful hit, and DEX would be dodging, possibly reduce effects of missing (enemy wouldn't be able to counter?), HP and MP are obvious, move speed was more included as a grid-based system but it's something I wouldn't be able to keep track of if I ran the game...

Actually, I might be able to run it. I'd need someone to do the mapping, though, more than likely. You know, something like those -turn based strategy game here- on Forum style things.

So, let me do a trial run of how this would work. Let's take something kind of easy- let's say we wanted a Slyph Archer (you'll be able to name classes you make when this is actually run, this case, an archer+wind mage)

HP: Archer has middle-ground HP, Mage has low HP. If lv. 1 base stats range, say, 2-12, we're looking at 6 and 3.
Growth rates are medium and medium low at 2 and 1.4.

(3)(8 )
4HP with 1.7 growth rate. No stats round up, so at Lv2 you've got 5HP (5.7) and at lv3 you have 7HP (7.4)

MP: Archer has very little MP (2) and mage has very high MP (10). Growth rate is lowish (1) and fast (2.5).
(19)(1)
10MP with 1.0 growth rate. Interesting, as it starts high but only goes up a point per level.

STR: Medium at 5 and low at 2. Growth is 1.3 and 1.0.
(20)(8 )
5 STR with a growth of 1.15. Two decimal places is as far as I'll let that go.

INT: Archer is pretty middling (5) and Mage is the smartest-est (8 ), archers don't exactly bang rocks together (1.1) and Mages learn all the books (1.8 )
(1)(13)
5 INT with a growth of 1.45. Not too bad, realistically.

Dex is high for archers (8 ) and not fantastic on mages (5), growth rates of (1.4) and (0.8 )
(6)(14)
7 DEX (if the base values have decimals, I will round) with a growth rate of 1.1)

Move rates (calculated by tiles, assumedly, where 5 is average)
Archer has 5, mage has 4, growths of 0.2 and 0.08
(15)(9) 5 tile move with a growth of 0.14. Move speed goes up very slowly by default- this unit would gain one tile of movement at-
(5) (5.14) (5.28 ) (5.42) (5.56) (5.70) (5.84) (5.98) (6.12)
Level 9.

[flabort]

Sweet. I'm definitely joining when I get a chance.
I'm actually wonder how base stats might get a (rare) chance to exceed their starting bounds, though, on a critical or something (Say 1, 2, 19, and 20 are crits, and then you roll a 1d6 to confirm (with a +1 to the roll for 1s and 20s); 1 or two fails to reach maximum value, 3 or four is maximum value, 5 and 6 exceed the value, and a 7 far exceeds it; Obviously 1s and 2s on the original 20 you replace maximum with minimum).
Such as 2 base dex + 7 base dex, roll of 20, Roll 1d6+1 to confirm crit, roll a 4+1, for 5, so the result is a 8 base dex.

Probably a bad idea, though. If your classes both have 1 base int, rolling a 1 then a 6 would probably result in a -1 base int.

Ooh, here's another BAD IDEA from me. What if certain classes had negative growth? Such as some sort of warlock having -0.5 int growth. Because of insanity, of course. Yeah, just ignore my input, I'm pretty crazy myself. 

[Tsuchigumo550]

I was tossing around the idea of some units with 0.00 growth, and items that could add or detract from those values permanently without the player knowing exactly what they do.

Say the stat mod items are some kind of fruits- the adventuring party will know that it's a sacred, all-powerful orange, but they won't know what it does- the orange might give them a permanent boon to strength, might increase the rate they get stronger, or REDUCE their growth or stat.

There's a lot about the world I haven't decided yet.

Though, I do have an idea- the plot will be semi-silly, so there's room for seriousness and knee-slappery

THE BASEMENT-DWELLING TIME WIZARD HAS (insert forever-alone related reasoning to fuck up timespace) IN HIS SEARCH FOR (money/technology/hot babes) AND NOW YOU MUST INVADE HIS (tower/dungeon/mom's house) AND SET THINGS RIGHT.

It would also explain why death is meaningless- you can change class at any time, must do so upon death (coming back has some penalties- I'm thinking ignoring modified results, so you won't get shafted but you won't get giga-awesome man skills either) because as soon as you die a future/parallel you pops out of a time gate and says "what the fuck" and is filled in by the rest of the party and then you vanquish the time mage.

[mastahcheese]

If that starts, though, I'd definitely like a PM, because it sounds really cool.

[Tsuchigumo550]

I'm going to be adapting the Perplexicon combat system to this, i think. It's more fleshed out than what I had, INT still needs to be a thing somewhere.

This means stats are HP, MP, INT, DEX, STR, SPD. Speed replaces move amount and is more like the other stats.

Melee combat uses pretty much everything but INT, and I'm considering making INT work in a similar fashion for magic, but ranged and not-a-specified-range magical attacks need to be fleshed out.

You'll be able to suggest classes for the baselist day one. You may find hybridized class characters that will benefit you somehow, fight you, or both. Some can offer to teach skills or hand off equipment, some just give you access to a new tree without needing a player to actually go down it (as once a class is made, you can use it in mixing), and some will heal you or dispel curses.

Some will fight you, then offer the same things, and some will fight you for fun or to the death.

Not sure where I'm going with the plot. Something lighthearted seemed fun, but I'm in the mood for something somewhat more serious. Not "serious face time is all the time", and expect there to be jokes from time to time (goblin birthday party room was an early idea), and don't expect the main boss to be as murderous.

The setting still involves time/space getting ROYALLY messed up, and thought/space might get it too. I think something along the lines of the Big Bad stealing and absorbing the powers of space (conveniently held by a single MacGuffin) and, as part of the chain, anything connected to space is starting to unravel because no mortal being can hold the entire power of space, let alone the Big Bad.

Expect a horrific final boss. I may attempt to draw it, even.

Also expect some kinds of inspiration from This, her, a good deal of that, this, and a whole slathering of other horrors locked deep away forever in my subconscious.

[Kadzar]

So I think I'm giving up on the Supers RtD, at least for now, since A) it was going to take a lot of work to make a robust, player-usable power creation system from scratch for this game B) such a thing was likely to be totally unbalanced C) I've mostly lost enthusiasm for it.


Anyway, I was looking at various god games and Looter's, and thinking back on how, in the early part of that game, I was hoping it would eventually end up like some real-world mythology, where the gods are, for the most part, just regular guys who do some mundane stuff and, due to the fact that all their shit is magic, end up accidentally creating a world in the process.

Obviously the game took a different direction and never panned out like that, and I don't begrudge it for that, but I do kind of wonder what could have been. What would happen if the players, as ordinary humans, somehow ended up creating and populating their own world?


So the basic idea of this is that it would be a godless godlike game. Players wouldn't start with any special powers, but would instead need to gain control of special magic capable of doing one specific thing, and applying the powers of those items creatively to shape their world. (It would probably be best if the players had some basic human needs that needed to be fulfilled, although that has the potential to bog down the game and also add the annoying problem of some concrete time measures being added to turns, so it's iffy.) I'm considering the possibility of players creating their own magic items somehow, though that could easily get out of hand if there aren't any sort of limiters put into place.

I'm thinking maybe there should be some sort of aspect-based crafting system. Like, if you want to make a sword, you might put in a blade of grass, and you could get some sort of grass blade. Or, if you want something that is able to make stuff, you'll need to put in something that is able to create, and the item that comes out might create stuff in a similar way ( so if you put in a chicken, a stick, and some fire, you might end up with a wand that lays eggs that make fire when broken).

So I'm thinking maybe there should be an island in some endless void that the players spawn on. And there would be one or various item-creation artifact(s) (If there are multiple artifacts they would have to be different somehow, like one is an item combiner and one is an aspect rearranger and I can't think of any more examples) situated somewhere on the island; not permanently affixed but no more portable than your average table. And there would also be various things like grass and rocks that players could use as basic building blocks to get started with the act of creation.


And now I'm at a point where I have a problem, which is that I don't see any inherent point of conflict within the game. It's not like I want players kill each other necessarily, but the way this is written, if players cooperate fully, they should be able to make whatever they want with enough time unless someone decides to be an asshat, which is boring. I think there needs to be some sort of limited resource or something to prevent people from just making whatever they want as much as they want.

[Tsuchigumo550]

WHEN SUDDENLY A POST

I AM STARTING THE CLASS BLENDING GAME.

YES.

THAT IS A THING AND I AM DOING IT.

Post up soon. Basically a fair warning to those who wanted PMs- they'll PROBABLY get out but I don't know how reliable I am with that. I will link to the post. I'll try to explain what I can in the OP but questions are welcome. The overall game setting and world design has changed, it -was- almost an arena, but it's still sorta-kinda-go-ahead-and-kill-each-other-I'm-not-stopping-you-co-op.

Also I hit post instead of preview because derp.

[Fniff]

Link that shit ASAP!

[Tsuchigumo550]

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=128371.0


PMs heading out. I'll take maybe 6 players at most, depending on how many people sign up.

[freeformschooler]

I suddenly have the worst idea for a forum game. Roll to Try Again! You go on a small adventure then invariably screw up along the way. You (as a character and player) have a limited amount of "time beacons" that you declare you are placing along with your action. Once the adventure is over and you are trapped in a cave/dragon's stomach/prison, you then declare you are going to travel back to beacon #2 or #4 or whatever. I (the GM) take note of the original action and result in a post where you had placed a beacon then let you edit it. Consequently, your action that you have traveled back in time to change affects the result that you get that turn (and, based on what your Trying Again roll result was, potentially many other results in a butterfly effect sort of way).

You as players must work together to find and fix all the major mistakes you made, carefully documenting the changes and retroactively discovering what was really going on in the plot. But wait, it gets worse: if your action creates a paradox (say, killing yourself in the past or somehow destroying someone's already-used Time Beacon), a sinister force hiding between the rifts in time, held down by Time Chains, grows closer to escaping.