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[Tsuchigumo550]

I was thinking alien ice planet, but there could be cooler locales out there.

I see what you did there.

[Fniff]

I had another idea for extra paranoia-inducing fun.

The alien starts out alone, but when it converts other humans, the players don't give up their characters... They keep playing them. They're just on the side of the aliens now. A perfect imitation. Anyway, here's a set of rolls I have for absorbing humans during the night.

Spoiler: Alien Rolls! (click to show/hide)

1: You fail to absorb them, and they now have a scrap of evidence against you. "That thing... That thing came from Fredrickson's room!"
2: You fail to absorb them, but they don't know who it was. "It was just a load of tentacles and teeth, I didn't see any tattoos for crying out loud!"
3: You absorb them, but leave rather suspicious evidence that the person was absorbed. "I found this jumpsuit in the engine room, torn to shit... It's Harlow's."
4: You absorb them, and leave only subtle evidence. "Hey, I wonder why Richards didn't report in last night, and now he's here all fine." "I was asleep, you dolt."
5: You absorb them, and leave no evidence. "Hey, Donnoly. Sleep well?"
6: You fail to absorb them, but leave misleading evidence. "Frankie's the goddamn alien! There is blood and gore everywhere in his lab, and only he can get in there!"

Also, it's cool to contribute your own ideas to the pile.

[Tarran]

Yes, but most objectives people actually follow are either very intuitive, mechanically beneficial, or mechanically detrimental to not follow. Staying alive would be a good example of all three- it's a very obvious goal for its own sake, it lets you do a lot of other things, and failing it carries consequences.

Where you run into trouble is when you have intuitive or weaker goals that conflict with the other two, since then rationally, there's no actual reason to complete them. Players kill themselves all the time when it suits their purposes, for instance, despite staying alive quite well under other, less beneficial circumstances.

In this case, you're essentially saying that major objectives can be abandoned "if you have to," without really defining what "have to" means. That's just begging for someone to decide you know what, screw it, they're just going to hide in a closet or run for the escape pod instead of going back for the datachip or protecting the VIP.

Yes, that'll usually be more boring than the other thing, and thus not all players will opt for it, but the tougher the decisions they have to make, the more they'll realize that there's actually no benefit to completing their goals, because their goals get themselves and/or others killed and that's even more boring, or maybe even not something they can justify doing to their fellow players.

I find myself once again mentioning SS13. Nobody seems to need to do the objectives like murder someone and so on, and they give no benefit over the potential cost. But they do murder people, at the risk of the entire crew trying to kill them. People even give themselves limitations and objectives in various different games just because they can despite there being no reward at all. I could go on, but I won't in order to keep this threat more orderly. I firmly believe that people will do interesting or challenging stuff that is fun rather than do nothing or do something boring if given the choice. Otherwise, nobody would do risky things or challenge themselves, and we wouldn't have super hard difficulty options.

Anyway, I'm not refuting your argument, it is in fact true in ways, I'm just saying you seem to be underestimating people's ability to decide to do dangerous or interesting things just because they can or because they're fun, especially when it's a game, and overestimating how much I actually, truly care about all the objectives being finished. They serve to be guidelines for players who don't already know what they want to do and are looking for something to do, mostly, not as something to directly progress the main "quest". If someone finds some more interesting way to play the game, ignoring all the objectives, then I honestly don't think I would actually have a problem with that. The only real difference would be the ending for the player characters, where failing the objectives will give an increasingly unsatisfying ending in ways.

Anyway, maybe you should suggest to me some sort of mechanic for preventing cancelling missions or something (that isn't an iron fist prevention). You haven't given me many, or perhaps even any suggestions to many things so far, only telling me what's wrong.

I certainly understand the sentiment, but hidden or antagonistic objectives tend to be directly opposed to teamwork and mutual benefit. It's hard to stop players from coalescing into full alliances once they figure out that everyone can win.

Potentially you can get around this somewhat by just letting full cooperation be the default state and then throwing occasional treachery, but that's a much harder scenario to build around than a more guarded setup where not everybody can necessarily succeed.

Yeah, I'm aiming for the latter. I'll see if I can't somehow figure out a way to make backstabbing some of the time more interesting. Maybe I'll do something like give some aliens the ability to get more power after eating others or something. I'll try to figure something out.

See, this is the kind of thing I'm concerned about. If your solution to a given scenario is to become enraged, end the game, and blacklist the participants... it seems to imply that there was absolutely no in-game reason for them not to do that and the game was incredibly poorly designed on that front.

Plus, arbitrary rules tend to leak. With a mechanical reason not to do something, half-doing it or doing things similar to it tend to be half-bad or similarly bad, which can still sometimes be worthwhile but typically not. With an arbitrary rule... it's likely that the benefits are still half there or similarly there, but since the downside is arbitrary, you end up with a very compelling reason for players to get as close to the forbidden actions as possible without actually triggering them.

First of all, there is no reason to assume I will become enraged. It is fully possible for someone to inflict the kind of punishment I mentioned without getting upset.

Second, care to tell me what you have in mind for preventing instant reveal for the same reason as two quotes above?

[monk12]

So here's a question, who's got a good system for alchemy and/or Minecraft-esque resource gathering/building? I've been poking at an RTD idea of mine, and the plot jumped to exciting places I'd like to explore, but I'd like to have some interesting mechanics if I'm going to call it a game. In particular, I'm starting to mull a system where players get raw materials and then either turn those into buildings/products, or smelt/combine/magic them into new, better materials.

I'm keen on if any other RTD has done it (or something similar,) or barring that another forum game or video game.

[Person]

So here's a question, who's got a good system for alchemy and/or Minecraft-esque resource gathering/building? I've been poking at an RTD idea of mine, and the plot jumped to exciting places I'd like to explore, but I'd like to have some interesting mechanics if I'm going to call it a game. In particular, I'm starting to mull a system where players get raw materials and then either turn those into buildings/products, or smelt/combine/magic them into new, better materials.
I'm keen on if any other RTD has done it (or something similar,) or barring that another forum game or video game.

Lankie did something like that on the mspa forums. I'll link it in case it gives inspiration at all. http://www.mspaforums.com/showthread.php?44270-Alchemy-Attack! There was also the mad scientist rtd , which was raw materials based. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=66290.0 Both those threads are dead but you might want to have a look. If you want some stuff on the mad scientist one, I got most of the rule files from the person that ran it, but I never got around to running it because I don't think I could think of good plot/missions.

[monk12]

So here's a question, who's got a good system for alchemy and/or Minecraft-esque resource gathering/building? I've been poking at an RTD idea of mine, and the plot jumped to exciting places I'd like to explore, but I'd like to have some interesting mechanics if I'm going to call it a game. In particular, I'm starting to mull a system where players get raw materials and then either turn those into buildings/products, or smelt/combine/magic them into new, better materials.
I'm keen on if any other RTD has done it (or something similar,) or barring that another forum game or video game.

Lankie did something like that on the mspa forums. I'll link it in case it gives inspiration at all. http://www.mspaforums.com/showthread.php?44270-Alchemy-Attack! There was also the mad scientist rtd , which was raw materials based. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=66290.0 Both those threads are dead but you might want to have a look. If you want some stuff on the mad scientist one, I got most of the rule files from the person that ran it, but I never got around to running it because I don't think I could think of good plot/missions.

Your rules files interest me, and I wish to subscribe to your pm list or newsletter!

Thanks!

[Digital Hellhound]

Hey, I haven't gone anywhere.

I don't know if there's anything there you can use. I remember Person having some good-sounding ideas, though?

[freeformschooler]

So here's a question, who's got a good system for alchemy and/or Minecraft-esque resource gathering/building? I've been poking at an RTD idea of mine, and the plot jumped to exciting places I'd like to explore, but I'd like to have some interesting mechanics if I'm going to call it a game. In particular, I'm starting to mull a system where players get raw materials and then either turn those into buildings/products, or smelt/combine/magic them into new, better materials.

I'm keen on if any other RTD has done it (or something similar,) or barring that another forum game or video game.

Spoiler: Alchemixery: Tiers and Elements (click to show/hide)

Welcome to the manual for the Tiers and Elements system! If you're reading this, you're probably already well on your way to becoming a successful Alchemixt. This manual assumes you have the following items:

-At least TWO different Alchemix Reagents
-At least ONE Crafting Device (e.g. Anvil, Furnace, Skill Tree)

As an Alchemixt, your goal is to utilize the resources in the world around you as Alchemix Reagents, combining them into ever-greater Reagents, Items and Spells. Though countless others have tried and failed, perhaps one day you will be the first to discover the legendary recipe for the Philoxipher's Stone.

A brief bit of technical information on the Reagents you'll be using today: Alchemix Reagents have both an Element and a Tier. Their Element is their very essence, the magical energy they collapse into during Alchemixery. Their Tier is a representation of their power and the power they can bestow upon your final product. Note: it is rumored some Reagents have hidden properties beyond Element and Tier, but this remains a field of intense study and debate among Alchemixts.

To begin Alchemixing, place two Alchemix Reagents on or in your Crafting Device. As a beginner, I recommend you stick to Tier One Reagents. After all, higher Tiers increase the chance of catastrophic failure. Until you develop Specializations (both product- and Elemental-based) to combat this, these failures can be damaging to you, your products and everyone around you.

Once the Reagents are placed in the Device, merely wait the requisite amount of time for the Product to be formed. Under no circumstances place additional Reagents in the Device while products are forming. However, if you MUST multi-task, you may utilize additional Crafting Devices. Though Devices are expensive and vary widely in use, professional Alchemixts may often be seen with large walls of Devices, each performing complicated, time-consuming, high-tier Alchemixy. Of course, an Alchemixt with the coin for such a display may also choose to purchase one or more slaves to watch for finished products in their stead.

Good luck on your journey to become a master Alchemixt, and don't forget: Positive plus Negative is NEVER a good combination!

[Tiruin]

I love that alchemixery table. Especially the use of amoebae in the mix. XD

I would be able to make a million medical-related puns on that point that nearly nobody would get. Mwahahaha!

Yes, but most objectives people actually follow are either very intuitive, mechanically beneficial, or mechanically detrimental to not follow. Staying alive would be a good example of all three- it's a very obvious goal for its own sake, it lets you do a lot of other things, and failing it carries consequences.

Where you run into trouble is when you have intuitive or weaker goals that conflict with the other two, since then rationally, there's no actual reason to complete them. Players kill themselves all the time when it suits their purposes, for instance, despite staying alive quite well under other, less beneficial circumstances.

In this case, you're essentially saying that major objectives can be abandoned "if you have to," without really defining what "have to" means. That's just begging for someone to decide you know what, screw it, they're just going to hide in a closet or run for the escape pod instead of going back for the datachip or protecting the VIP.

Yes, that'll usually be more boring than the other thing, and thus not all players will opt for it, but the tougher the decisions they have to make, the more they'll realize that there's actually no benefit to completing their goals, because their goals get themselves and/or others killed and that's even more boring, or maybe even not something they can justify doing to their fellow players.

I find myself once again mentioning SS13. Nobody seems to need to do the objectives like murder someone and so on, and they give no benefit over the potential cost. But they do murder people, at the risk of the entire crew trying to kill them. People even give themselves limitations and objectives in various different games just because they can despite there being no reward at all. I could go on, but I won't in order to keep this threat more orderly. I firmly believe that people will do interesting or challenging stuff that is fun rather than do nothing or do something boring if given the choice. Otherwise, nobody would do risky things or challenge themselves, and we wouldn't have super hard difficulty options.

Anyway, I'm not refuting your argument, it is in fact true in ways, I'm just saying you seem to be underestimating people's ability to decide to do dangerous or interesting things just because they can or because they're fun, especially when it's a game, and overestimating how much I actually, truly care about all the objectives being finished. They serve to be guidelines for players who don't already know what they want to do and are looking for something to do, mostly, not as something to directly progress the main "quest". If someone finds some more interesting way to play the game, ignoring all the objectives, then I honestly don't think I would actually have a problem with that. The only real difference would be the ending for the player characters, where failing the objectives will give an increasingly unsatisfying ending in ways.

Anyway, maybe you should suggest to me some sort of mechanic for preventing cancelling missions or something (that isn't an iron fist prevention). You haven't given me many, or perhaps even any suggestions to many things so far, only telling me what's wrong.

I wonder if the basis for these statements lie in the environment that the player has, including any unspoken rules present and the transparency of any universal laws, or if it mainly prods the theoretical objective and goal as a whole, because I really am leaning on the environmental influence rather than the technical aspects of the idea of an objective in itself.

[monk12]

So here's a question, who's got a good system for alchemy and/or Minecraft-esque resource gathering/building? I've been poking at an RTD idea of mine, and the plot jumped to exciting places I'd like to explore, but I'd like to have some interesting mechanics if I'm going to call it a game. In particular, I'm starting to mull a system where players get raw materials and then either turn those into buildings/products, or smelt/combine/magic them into new, better materials.

I'm keen on if any other RTD has done it (or something similar,) or barring that another forum game or video game.

Spoiler: Alchemixery: Tiers and Elements (click to show/hide)

Welcome to the manual for the Tiers and Elements system! If you're reading this, you're probably already well on your way to becoming a successful Alchemixt. This manual assumes you have the following items:

-At least TWO different Alchemix Reagents
-At least ONE Crafting Device (e.g. Anvil, Furnace, Skill Tree)

As an Alchemixt, your goal is to utilize the resources in the world around you as Alchemix Reagents, combining them into ever-greater Reagents, Items and Spells. Though countless others have tried and failed, perhaps one day you will be the first to discover the legendary recipe for the Philoxipher's Stone.

A brief bit of technical information on the Reagents you'll be using today: Alchemix Reagents have both an Element and a Tier. Their Element is their very essence, the magical energy they collapse into during Alchemixery. Their Tier is a representation of their power and the power they can bestow upon your final product. Note: it is rumored some Reagents have hidden properties beyond Element and Tier, but this remains a field of intense study and debate among Alchemixts.

To begin Alchemixing, place two Alchemix Reagents on or in your Crafting Device. As a beginner, I recommend you stick to Tier One Reagents. After all, higher Tiers increase the chance of catastrophic failure. Until you develop Specializations (both product- and Elemental-based) to combat this, these failures can be damaging to you, your products and everyone around you.

Once the Reagents are placed in the Device, merely wait the requisite amount of time for the Product to be formed. Under no circumstances place additional Reagents in the Device while products are forming. However, if you MUST multi-task, you may utilize additional Crafting Devices. Though Devices are expensive and vary widely in use, professional Alchemixts may often be seen with large walls of Devices, each performing complicated, time-consuming, high-tier Alchemixy. Of course, an Alchemixt with the coin for such a display may also choose to purchase one or more slaves to watch for finished products in their stead.

Good luck on your journey to become a master Alchemixt, and don't forget: Positive plus Negative is NEVER a good combination!

I salute you, good sir!

I love that alchemixery table. Especially the use of amoebae in the mix. XD

I would be able to make a million medical-related puns on that point that nearly nobody would get. Mwahahaha!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yes, but most objectives people actually follow are either very intuitive, mechanically beneficial, or mechanically detrimental to not follow. Staying alive would be a good example of all three- it's a very obvious goal for its own sake, it lets you do a lot of other things, and failing it carries consequences.

Where you run into trouble is when you have intuitive or weaker goals that conflict with the other two, since then rationally, there's no actual reason to complete them. Players kill themselves all the time when it suits their purposes, for instance, despite staying alive quite well under other, less beneficial circumstances.

In this case, you're essentially saying that major objectives can be abandoned "if you have to," without really defining what "have to" means. That's just begging for someone to decide you know what, screw it, they're just going to hide in a closet or run for the escape pod instead of going back for the datachip or protecting the VIP.

Yes, that'll usually be more boring than the other thing, and thus not all players will opt for it, but the tougher the decisions they have to make, the more they'll realize that there's actually no benefit to completing their goals, because their goals get themselves and/or others killed and that's even more boring, or maybe even not something they can justify doing to their fellow players.

I find myself once again mentioning SS13. Nobody seems to need to do the objectives like murder someone and so on, and they give no benefit over the potential cost. But they do murder people, at the risk of the entire crew trying to kill them. People even give themselves limitations and objectives in various different games just because they can despite there being no reward at all. I could go on, but I won't in order to keep this threat more orderly. I firmly believe that people will do interesting or challenging stuff that is fun rather than do nothing or do something boring if given the choice. Otherwise, nobody would do risky things or challenge themselves, and we wouldn't have super hard difficulty options.

Anyway, I'm not refuting your argument, it is in fact true in ways, I'm just saying you seem to be underestimating people's ability to decide to do dangerous or interesting things just because they can or because they're fun, especially when it's a game, and overestimating how much I actually, truly care about all the objectives being finished. They serve to be guidelines for players who don't already know what they want to do and are looking for something to do, mostly, not as something to directly progress the main "quest". If someone finds some more interesting way to play the game, ignoring all the objectives, then I honestly don't think I would actually have a problem with that. The only real difference would be the ending for the player characters, where failing the objectives will give an increasingly unsatisfying ending in ways.

Anyway, maybe you should suggest to me some sort of mechanic for preventing cancelling missions or something (that isn't an iron fist prevention). You haven't given me many, or perhaps even any suggestions to many things so far, only telling me what's wrong.

I wonder if the basis for these statements lie in the environment that the player has, including any unspoken rules present and the transparency of any universal laws, or if it mainly prods the theoretical objective and goal as a whole, because I really am leaning on the environmental influence rather than the technical aspects of the idea of an objective in itself.

I feel like a great deal of it does depend on those "unspoken rules" and "environment." Basically, it's whether the players accept the premise of the game they are playing. If the premise is clearly defined ("Murder DINOhitler", etc) then the players are probably going to try and accomplish that goal since that's what they signed up for when they joined the game (and they might be disappointed if the game ends up doing something else, like becoming Cooking Mama: RTD edition.) Similarly, the things they can do in-game tend to be constrained by that premise (nobody will try to set up a muffin shop in the middle of DINOhitler's bunker, and if they did it would just get blown up.) If the premise isn't clearly defined (most sandbox games don't have much beyond "survive and improve yourself") then you have to think harder about making any plot-based objectives actually be something the players want to do, since they can already do whatever they want. And one of the easiest ways to make a player want to do something is to provide a mechanical benefit or reward for doing that behavior.

[lawastooshort]

Murder DINOhitler Cooking Mama: RTD edition

Wow.

[monk12]

Murder DINOhitler Cooking Mama: RTD edition

Wow.

You know, when I was typing that I was thinking "maaaaybe I shouldn't use a lawas game as my example here."

[lawastooshort]

I am quite close to the NEW TOPIC button…

YOU MUST COOK WHILST RESISTING THE ONSLAUGHT OF THE DINONAZI HORDES!!1

LEVEL ONE: CREPES!

[Tsuchigumo550]

Inspiration.

A game where all but one player has objectives that mean something. The last player is the Space Asshole, and is there to royally fuck up anything the players try to accomplish.

For instance, the players are trying to set up a new mine. Once they get it started, they'll have more income to spend on various things,especially food and supplies they require to continue work.

They have a set number of turns to do it. Alone, this would be an easy and somewhat boring. However, when the Space Asshole appears, it becomes anything but. Each player starts off with hardly enough to keep him at bay, whereas the Space Asshole starts more than able to do whatever he pleases. The players have some catching up to do. The Space Asshole is only limited by setting- he does not have to manage resources, if he wants a truck, he can steal one and do whatever he wants with it, and the absurdity of his requests are determined by rolls. Want to steal some mining equipment on a mining colony? Don't even need a roll. Want to take over an entire security outpost? You'll probably wind up severely  injured.

The players have strength in groups. They can improve each other's rolls just by being near each other.

Win Conditions: Players
-Kill the Space Asshole.
-Build up a large enough colony (complete a number of objectives) so the government will start caring about your problems (The Space Asshole, mostly.)
-Evacuate. This is a special win condition that would only be reached in "the fan is buried in shit" moments. This is when the Space Asshole does something so colossally destructive that your patron government decides you need to leave. This also takes time, so the Space Asshole can still feasibly do that extreme during the time it takes to evac.

Win Conditions: Space Asshole:
-Kill all but one Player.
-Stop the players from making money and reduce their cash to 0, forcing them to leave.
-Go full Space Asshole. Destroying the entire colony, taking control of the planet, repositioning the mining lasers at the home planet and firing... Basically, initiate an Evac and complete your insane plot before it completes.

[flabort]

Who... hahaha... wrote... harrrrharrrrr... that... gaspwheeze... song?!
Hahahaha, before listening to that, I thought the idea might be based off Space Station 13. What game was that footage actually from, though? That looks worth playing to be a... Space Asshole.