Oh come off it, Book. Org's actions D1 scream Jester. (granted they also scream someone pretending to be Jester, but that's irrelevant here).
Since my point is trying to differentiate whether he's a jester or someone pretending to be a jester, how exactly is that "irrelevant here"? It's the very crux of the question! If Org's actions scream of a jester, and also scream of someone pretending to be one, how do you decide which is true?
Note that I call no conclusions on this matter one way or the other. I offered him something he supposedly wants (my support for his lynch) to test him, and he failed that test. That may be because he's scum, or just because he's a jester who doesn't give a damn.
Because it's WIFOM. I don't care who you are, this isn't a situation you can read reliably, nor is there any real reason to do so. Feel free to WIFOM yourself, but don't spread it around to the rest of the town, please.
SirBayer flipped town. Either you're saying SirBayer is a really big idiot or he lied. Both are impossible.
False dichotomy. I also point out that he may have been given a prepared fakeclaim as part of that "gossipy skank" power (or are gossipy skanks invariably honest?), or that Org or Pandar may have worded the claim in an ambiguous fashion which may have been misinterpreted, to mention just two more possibilities. So that's four so far, and I'm sure others can be presented.
Actually, it is a false dichotomy since neither of the options presented is an actual option. It's really that there's no possibility. Your first option is impossible because the spoiling spectators revealed Org's ability via the mod. So unless the laws we're working under applied during dawn and can allow Pand to lie about this particular ability, then Org is confirmed jester due to a confirmed townie revealing a known true, known existing role confirmation. Your second option is basically your first and my second options combined. Org didn't compose the PM, Pand revealed that he was the one making the PM. SirBayer can't have misread it since he's not an idiot. If SirBayer was confused, questions would be asked until he was sure. And besides, Pand says nothing about the ability having ambiguous wording in the revealed ability. Now, that doesn't guarantee it wasn't ambiguous, but I'm gonna apply mod logic here and say that if it was, I would definitely have said so to Org.
You're saying that if you have no better options, you'll lynch a jester who may or may not be of the game-ending persuasion. Now, I highly doubt Org is that kind of jester for a variety of reasons, but the chance is possible. Frankly, I'd rather not risk it.
Don't risk it if you don't want, I'm not asking you to do anything. I really doubt he's a game-ending jester (have you ever seen one? especially in a 15-people game?) and I assess that as possibility less likely than he (or Pandar or Bayer) lied or was mistaken about his jester claim, protecting a scum from being lynched.
If any game were to have one, it would be in a bastard-ish role-heavy BYOR game like this.
And in any case, you do no scumhunting whatsoever, so your statement is completely hallow.
Hallow'd it may be, but it's not hollow. Yours is, as I've proven above. And I
am scumhunting: I'm hunting Org, specifically by testing his interest in being lynched by offering him a bone in exchange for information, and casting doubt on his assertions D1. He recently admitted he hasn't lied "D2", so it's
wide open whether he lied D1 (to Bayer or to us) or not. I've not scumhunted others much yet, as the day is young, but we'll see what transpires. For now, I'm detecting scummy vibes from you:
Why are you so interested in defending Org? Why do you declare he's "CONFIRMED" jester, when you have now said "if [my assumptions don't hold] I suppose there's a chance Pand is lying too". I find your use of votes, lies, fallacies, and CAPITAL LETTERS (REALLY?) an obvious attempt at misdirection, which only a scum would do.
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He's confirmed jester because the confirmed townie and confirmed neutral players used the confirmed truthful mod to reveal a publicly known true ability of Org's that specifically says it reveals his true role. I don't think it's possible to be any more confirmed jester.
Well see, you're wasting your time by scumhunting a player whose alignment is already publicly known. You're also trying to scumhunt one of the hardest-to-read players we have when he's NOT a jester trying to obfuscate, much less when he actually is. And even if he isn't, he's obviously going to try to act like one, so you're left with an absurdly difficult scumhunt that hinges on an impossible situation happening.
You're the one causing doubt about a known fact, which is why I'm voting you. There's no way you're so dense that you'll decide that any of the confirmed townie, confirmed truthful mod, and confirmed neutral spectators are lying unless you're scum. Your statements confuse me, actually, since they're absurd. You know damn well Org is a jester since you know SirBayer is town, you know the spoiling spectators are neutral, and you know Pand doesn't lie. That's pretty fucking bulletproof if you ask me.
Well of course if my assumptions are wrong the conclusions I've drawn from them are also going to be wrong. Of course, the only part of it that's a presumption is about Leafsnail, and I'm obviously not going to claim another players i confirmed if Leafsnail had to also be confirmed since Leafsnail isn't. The only reason that I even bring Leafsnail into the equation is that it drives another nail into the coffin of the "Pand's lying!" idea.
You say Org is a reserve lynch in case you have no other targets, yet do nothing to actually get those other targets. That makes you absurdly passive. That makes you scum.
Sometimes targets just come and present themselves, don't they, Person? I say you are scum for claiming CERTAINTY that Org is CONFIRMED anything, REALLY. How are you so certain? Why are you willing to go foaming at the mouth spewing bullshit arguments to prevent anyone even questioning his word as unassailable FACT? No. The more likely explanation is that you're scum, and are either making sure your buddy's status as unlynchable remains, or want to steer the town to a mislynch that'll get you closer to victory: another townie instead of a jester.
Again, I'm not advocating we lynch Org. I'm advocating someone fucks him over during the night, and I'm casting doubts about his jester claim unless he becomes very generous with information that the town needs.
Because you're questioning the word of SirBayer and Pand, both of whom are infallible. And you know they're infallible since they're publicly known to be infallible.
Oddly enough, I also wouldn't mind seeing Org dead before lylo, but I would be a million times happier to see a scum get shot during the night. I wouldn't mind townie dying during the night as long as our killer eventually hits a scum or two. The only reason Org needs to go is that the scum might choose to risk lynching him. On the other hand, I'm confident in Pand's abilitiy to balance the game so that Org being a jester isn't a lylo-breaker for the scum. Is my confidence misplaced? Possibly. But we'll see. There's a load of shit that will mess up the scum's plans if they choose to reveal themselves to a bunch of strangers. For that reason, if Org's alive at lylo, I vote we don't MC.
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Topic: Why Would You Do That?: A Mafia Misadventure: Game Over, nobody wins >:I (Read 189833 times)