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[Darvi]

Bayer, I think you got something backwards there. We ( or at least I) didn't vote for herping derping. We voted him because he kept doing nothing else. It's active lurking at its finest. And you defending him makes you scummy too. Period.

Pfp.

[Leafsnail]

Bayer, I think you got something backwards there. We ( or at least I) didn't vote for herping derping. We voted him because he kept doing nothing else. It's active lurking at its finest. And you defending him makes you scummy too. Period.

As far as I can tell, you're saying you voted Org for being scummy, and SirBayer for defending scum.  Doesn't this mean that Bayer's scumminess is contingent on Org's scumminess, and that you should continue to vote Org?

In addition, I can't read that intention into your post that votes Org:

Org: Derp. Derpaderpaherp. Stop it.

Would you mind explaining?

Re: Post Above

I played once with Org before, he was annoying, but never this bad. Also, your need to defend Orgs indefensible position screams buddying.

So... is he scum or isn't he?  Scum doesn't buddy other scum unless you're claiming some kind of strange WIFOM.

[IronyOwl]

Because we call it Orgness. It's like saying Pandarsenic making puns is a scumtell. Yeah, it's annoying. Yeah, it's not helpful. But it doesn't actually mean much, in context.

I'll grant that the only way to catch scum-Org is a policy lynch, but I won't stand behind this right now. It's a bad idea and it won't end well. I am fairly willing to put my bet on a useless town-Org.

SirBayer, why do you think Org is useless town?

Why would I tell Org to shape up? We've been doing that for years now and it doesn't make a difference.

And if he's spouting nulltells, but there's about to be a lynch on him, why in the name of all that is good and holy would I let that go through? Do you want us to waste our first day lynch? If he's town, and I think he is, that's two townies in the first night. If we don't have any real tells on him, why would I just leave it alone?

So you admit that he's useless, you admit that he's going to continue to be useless, you admit that there's no way to stop him from being useless, earlier you admitted he does not drop scumtells because he is always scummy, and you're still opposed to lynching him because we have no solid read on him.

In other words, you're pushing an Org Policy Notlynch. Why?

[Zrk2]

Sir Bayer, I can only see 2 possibilities for your defense of Org:

1. You're both scum and you're trying to save your buddy.
2. Org is a townie, and you are defending him so when he gets lynched you can say 'I told you so.'

Irregardless, Org may be a strange player, but this is totally unforgivable.

[SirBayer]

Bayer, I think you got something backwards there. We ( or at least I) didn't vote for herping derping. We voted him because he kept doing nothing else. It's active lurking at its finest. And you defending him makes you scummy too. Period.

Pfp.

So maybe you ignored what I was saying, in that this is all Org does? Or maybe I'm just mute and my text is all white and nobody's reading it. Hard to say.

Because we call it Orgness. It's like saying Pandarsenic making puns is a scumtell. Yeah, it's annoying. Yeah, it's not helpful. But it doesn't actually mean much, in context.

I'll grant that the only way to catch scum-Org is a policy lynch, but I won't stand behind this right now. It's a bad idea and it won't end well. I am fairly willing to put my bet on a useless town-Org.

SirBayer, why do you think Org is useless town?

Dear heavens, do I seriously have to re-explain myself? Did nothing I just post count for anything? Anything?

No. No, I'm not going to repeat myself for everyone's convenience. You get this much: Because this is what Org does. And I'd rather take the like 10/13 chance that Org is a town or something other than a scum than just blindly jump onto him and lose two townies.

Or heck, even give him a win condition.

Why would I tell Org to shape up? We've been doing that for years now and it doesn't make a difference.

And if he's spouting nulltells, but there's about to be a lynch on him, why in the name of all that is good and holy would I let that go through? Do you want us to waste our first day lynch? If he's town, and I think he is, that's two townies in the first night. If we don't have any real tells on him, why would I just leave it alone?

So you admit that he's useless, you admit that he's going to continue to be useless, you admit that there's no way to stop him from being useless, earlier you admitted he does not drop scumtells because he is always scummy, and you're still opposed to lynching him because we have no solid read on him.

In other words, you're pushing an Org Policy Notlynch. Why?

Because.

This.

Is.

Org.

Do I have to

REHASH EVERY WORD I SPEAK

You yourself just read a sentence I wrote and managed to produce a question that is answered by the statement I made.

Sir Bayer, I can only see 2 possibilities for your defense of Org:

1. You're both scum and you're trying to save your buddy.
2. Org is a townie, and you are defending him so when he gets lynched you can say 'I told you so.'

Irregardless, Org may be a strange player, but this is totally unforgivable.

That's a pretty limited set of circumstances. You're pigeonholing me into extremes. Org couldn't be third-party? I couldn't be defending a towny because it's a smart thing to do? I couldn't be third-party setting up something else? And you're holding off on a vote you should probably have made long ago, since at this point you don't seem to actually care about Org anymore.

Hmm. Waiting so that yours and Mr. Person's votes won't drop at the same time?

Irregardless may or may not be a word. >_>

[Zrk2]

We get the fucking point. ORG PLAYS WEIRD, YET HOW HE IS PLAYING NOW IS WORSE THAN NORMAL. ORG BEING ORG IS NOT AN EXCUSE TO BE USELESS.

Or is my text white, too?

[SirBayer]

We get the fucking point. ORG PLAYS WEIRD, YET HOW HE IS PLAYING NOW IS WORSE THAN NORMAL. ORG BEING ORG IS NOT AN EXCUSE TO BE USELESS.

Or is my text white, too?

I stand by my statements. Numbers say I have more experience to speak from. If you want to go and take him out, I can't stop you, but don't let it be said I didn't try.

[RedWarrior0]

Just don't let him publicly block WUBA or someone like that three days in a row, mmmkay?

[Org]

IT WAS TWO DAYS, AND THEY WERENT CONSECUTIVE SHUT UP

[Org]

Or did I block on the fourth day I DONT REMEMBER.

[webadict]

Or did I block on the fourth day I DONT REMEMBER.

The fact that you did it after I was pretty much confirmed was the real problem...

[Mr.Person]

You might as well not even talk to me anymore SirBayer, I have never been more convinced of anyone's scuminess. The only reasons you have to defend another player right now have been stated quite well by Zrk2. You're scum defending scum or scum buddying a non-scum. There are no other options. If you were a townie, you wouldn't have anything to make you so sure of Org's towniness because all he's dropped are nulltells and scumtells.

What's making me more sure is your flailing, panicky behavior about getting voted and your attempt to link me and Zrk2 without any reasoning at all as to why you're doing so. The fact you avoided answering what makes you think Org is town is just another nail. I perfectly understand thinking Org isn't scum, but you went right passed that and started defending him. Now, I dunno about anybody else, but I have no reason to defend another player unless I think that other player is a townie. So logically you think Org is a townie.

You also didn't deny that when I first stated you thought he was a townie, so I'm forced to assume you agree. Feel free to deny thinking Org is a townie, but it makes your defense of him all the more worse if you do. You're in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. You're either defending Org because you think he's town without any real reason to think that or you're defending Org without thinking he's town. Both positions are scummy.

There's also this bit:

Also I'm not exactly sure why you're reacting when I never accused you. Jumpy, a bit? Your random vote is all fine and good. But you certainly seem to feel like you've done something wrong, or at least like I'm accusing you of such a thing. Now review that post. Did I ever say anything about you or your vote, yet again? The answer's no.

So, Mr. Person, what's your deal?

I don't even know where to begin. Yes, you never accused me of anything. No, you're the one that's jumpy. I accused you of defending Org without any reason to do so. Then you start trying to attack me for umm... defending myself? I'm not sure considering you're attacking me for something that hasn't happened. This is the first time all game you've mentioned me, so I'm just frankly confused as to what you're talking about here.

@Darvi: Don't answer for other people, especially if it's a question the other player hasn't answered in the first place. Sure, that's why you suspect Org, but it may or may not be the reasons other people suspect Org.

@Org: What do you think of SirBayer defense of you?

@Leafsnail: Scum "buddying" other scum is a classic scum move like OMGUS and lurking. Problem is, like those two, nobody does it anymore because it seems obvious. The idea is that if scum A defends scum B, all the townies might be convinced by scum A's argument that scum B is town, so they won't vote scum B. Can't believe you didn't think of that.

[IronyOwl]

And I'd rather take the like 10/13 chance that Org is a town or something other than a scum than just blindly jump onto him and lose two townies.

The first is the entirety of your argument, then. Statistically he's town, therefore he's town.

By the way, I'm not gonna do anything all game except post enough to not get modkilled and bandwagon whoever has the most votes at the time. But, statistically I'll still be town, so I'm counting on you to defend me when people start calling me on it.

You then mention, for the second time, this dread condition of losing two townies, as though that weren't standard to a mislynch, or as if mislynches weren't common. Despite having no strong suspicions that I've seen, you're apparently mortified that we might lose two townies by lynching Org. But not, you know, whoever we eventually decide is scummy enough to lynch D1. Like the dreaded Zrk2, who bandwagoned Org while he herped, or maybe Person The Insidious for... calling you on defending Org without being asked about it. Yes, clearly one of those two won't lose us two townies, but Herp Derp The Innocent will.

Or heck, even give him a win condition.

Yeah, no. You're dead set against lynching him, no matter how consistently and irrevocably useless, because statistically he's town, but then "Oh no guys, we might even let him win if we do that!" You're considering jester but refusing to consider scum, which there is really no defense for.

[Jack A T]

We get the fucking point. ORG PLAYS WEIRD, YET HOW HE IS PLAYING NOW IS WORSE THAN NORMAL. ORG BEING ORG IS NOT AN EXCUSE TO BE USELESS.

Or is my text white, too?

I stand by my statements. Numbers say I have more experience to speak from. If you want to go and take him out, I can't stop you, but don't let it be said I didn't try.

Numbers also say this is the first game you've played with Org since October.  That was Pick Your Scumteam.  In it, Org, on day 1, was giving coherent arguments.  He was, admittedly, also being nonsensical at times, but he was still nice enough to give his reasoning for the things he actually did for the game.  He was being useful in his own way: Herp derp herp derp vote change vote change COHERENT ARGUMENT COHERENT ARGUMENT herp derp COHERENT COUNTERARGUMENT and such.

As an example (date's messed up due to locked thread, but oh well),

Elegy seems not to be keeping a low profile. as some people pointed out. He seems to e being talked about much.
Not exactly low profile.
But he is being passive. Passive is bad, which makes you scum, Elegy.
I also seem to remember a more verbose Elegy in other posts not pertaining to mafia, but this is just a random bit of information as he has not played more than a single known game, making it useless.

In more recent games, he's still been willing to seriously contribute.

Spoiler: Org quotes (click to show/hide)

Archangel:  What have you learned in recent games that you feel you can apply to this one?

Nothing, because all my mistakes are ones I've always made. Flaws that I would have at least somewhat fixed in the last Supernatural if I had continued what I did D1.

I am rethinking my pre-game argument. Arch, you said "I'll play this game to the best of my ability, because I can play well and want to prove it." Does that still stand? When will you start?

When I actually have time to do a proper post. Both yesterday and the day before I had to leave right after I posted the little I posted.

Archangel has 2 posts; the last 16 hours ago. Red text: Posts: [1][2]
Org has 2 posts; the last 45 hours ago. Red text: Posts: [1][2]

This is inexcusible. You have 2/3 as many posts PUT TOGETHER as the MODERATOR for crying out loud.

I have an excuse, which I've given far too many times and you a far too active for you not to be aware of it. Org, however, does not. Usually, he's also far more active than me. I find what he's doing suspicious.

Now I'm going to go back to the start and begin a proper look through. Some more should be coming in about 15 minutes, then I'm going to go wash.

Okay, let me start, I guess. Awesomeeee.
Org is a busy guy somedays that aren't weekends. He can pop in a few times, but sometimes his manager is a bitch and makes me work on Friday. Like Today, herpa derp derp.

Nice deflectyion, don't say it wasn't I misspelled deflection but I am too lazy to fix it and whatnot. Anyway, yes, nice slip.

Oh, are you playing the "if you lynch me you'll regret it!" card? Yeah, that's another nail in your coffin.

I hesitated posting that because I knew that's how you (and possibly others would react), but it's exactly my point.  If you lynch me today, the Mafia kills an another of the more active players tonight, and one or more of the remaining ones is scum, they can easily just lurk to victory. Happened before, sure it will happen again. Would rather it not be this game.
There are *always* mislynches built into Mafia. I really do think that even if you're 80% convinced I'm scum, you can always lynch me later.

Bah. I want to be clear: you are definitely scummy enough to hang. However, I will concede that Org is nearly as much, and your continued presence is better for the day game than his, so I'll go on record and say: I'm ready to support a lynch of Org, who is my second scummiest target, if it seems like it's doable by the end of the day. If we decide to go this route, then I request investigative roles, blockers or somesuch to try to get a reading on Janus.

If I could, I'd vote them both.
<broken quote tag removed by Jack A T, for purposes of formatting>
I must say this. If I can make two posts, and be considerably scummy, IM DOIN IT WRONG.
If , somehow, I can be scum with two posts, that a bunch of bullshit. Anyway, Zathras, trying to get a bandwagon by pointing your finger at me and saying I'm scummy is not generally something town does, and I do believe your reasoning, as I could find, was that I was lurking and you had some stupid preconceived idiocy about me and Janus as scum. I must say, this is generally a bad way to bandwagon. Something town doesn't do. Man, and I thought you played better scum than this Zath. Heh. I wouldn't mind lynching Janus either, seeing as how bad at playing scum he is, generally as bad as him playing town. Bussing a pretty bad tactic. Also, meta. Silent Org is scum Org MY ASS. You guys say I am unreadable, but the fuck. I mean, its pretty laughable. One, usually my scum game involves me actually playing and not lurking. I mean, you are kinda waffling there too. You were like, lol org oh wait Janus.

Herpa derp. Janus is bad at playing scum.
Oh, and this.
So, Zathras, explain my scummitude for me, will you?

At Zath, I think that all of the giant posts is just distracting, so like Irony and Joker. I have seen a few times where scum will pill all this off, what not. I think Nirur shouldnt use meta and whatnot.

Pandar I am kinda meh about, exams and stuff, having to do that myself.

Joker shouldnt be dumb, lurking is bad. I am not lurking. I am sleeping. Shush.
Cultists? Eh mebbeh.

Wow, you're doing the "SoundEffectX SoundEffectX I'm a NounThatRhymesWithX" I did when I was too busy to make real contributions.

I... Yeah.

I'm going to sleep. Don't all go killing each other in my absence.

Notice something about each of these posts?  They're all from more recent games than the last one you played with Org, and they all involve Org actually being kind of not completely useless.

[Book]

SirBayer. Where the hell have you been? Why are you not playing the mafias anymore? Why do you think I am sure you are scum? which of the ongoing or recently ended games on the forum do you wish you could have entered? (and why didn't you?)

I haven't been playing Mafias recently because I tire of games that turn into chores. Then I remember they're fun, so I play. Then I remember they're chores, so I quit.
I think you're scum because you changed your name. Why aren't you Zathras anymore? ANSWER MEEEEEEEE

The name change happened not that long ago. Mostly because I decided I like one-syllable generic nouns better than hard to spell obscure references; I lost Zathras' soul on a bet, but otherwise it's still me.

But you didn't answer my questions. I didn't ask why you thought I was scum, but why you thought I thought you were scum. And also, which recent games you wish you would have joined, and why didn't you.

That being said, I'm glad to see you here. I hope you stick around for a while.

But seriously. You're still. Somehow. Surprised. When are people ever going to learn how Org actually plays?

Wait wait why are you voting me I am joking, Herp a derp
[and similar ones]

This is a very, very good summary of what can be said. Dunno how long you've been around here, but whenever people say "This is so over and above for Org," the fact is it's really not.

Sure, It is not, but yet it is not good enough. I'm familiar enough with Org, and his antics this game have generally been par for the course. Not helpful-Org, but not caricature-of-himself-Org either. I'm not in favour of him hanging for being different, but for being similar. Just so he knows he can't get away with it every game. But I find it interesting that you object, without more grounds than "he's Org". Sure, he is, so?

I was catching up with the intention of unvoting you and voting either Org or some of the people attacking him, but your defence of him just strikes me as unfounded, and therefore scummy. Added to that your failure to actually answer my questions, I'm keeping my vote on you for now. Welcome back, SirBayer.

I stand by my statements. Numbers say I have more experience to speak from. If you want to go and take him out, I can't stop you, but don't let it be said I didn't try.

Numbers also say this is the first game you've played with Org since October.  That was Pick Your Scumteam.  In it, Org, on day 1, was giving coherent arguments.  He was, admittedly, also being nonsensical at times, but he was still nice enough to give his reasoning for the things he actually did for the game.  He was being useful in his own way: Herp derp herp derp vote change vote change COHERENT ARGUMENT COHERENT ARGUMENT herp derp COHERENT COUNTERARGUMENT and such.

[...]Notice something about each of these posts?  They're all from more recent games than the last one you played with Org, and they all involve Org actually being kind of not completely useless.

Oh, BayBay, the newbies are giving you a run for your money! What say you to the above?