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[Oneir]

... probably not very broken, I don't think. It'd be more defense and probably triple-hitting, but it's not like you can't already do that in-game via adventurer stuff. Usual synergy with AB things, I guess...

I mean, how well do shield damage stats scale relative to fists? And would glove procs happen on shield bashes, etc. Thinking about it, unless you specifically coded it otherwise, the biggest boost would probably just be from having more slots for egos. But there's always the appeal of magical martial-arts shield dwarves. (...?)

I don't think it'd be very hard to code, though -- just turn off whatever part of the brawler code disables unarmed talents on wearing shields and you'd be good to go, I think. Or go in the other direction and crib the stoneshield code. Very slightly complicated, I suppose...

If you know how to code, anyway. Supposedly T4's LUA is pretty easy to work with (and it's definitely relatively easy to read, as code goes), but it gives me a headache trying so :V

Yeah, the reason I say "slightly complicated" is because it requires either futzing with existing skills or copy-pastaing entire skill lines with the changes you mention--versus slightly...simple, I guess, modding where you "only" have to add new skills or whatever. I know for sure that ToME let's you add things plug-and-play, but I haven't look into it enough to know how easy it would be to change existing code as part of an add-on.

[Frumple]

Changing existing code is... well, from what I've seen, generally considerably easier than adding new skills. Adding entirely new talents into the game is probably one of the most difficult parts of T4 modding, heh, unless they're, like, incredibly simple (and probably ripped off from another talent. I think I've seen four or five separate "this is stealth renamed" talents in the addons on the site, ha). Copy/pasting old ones and then adjusting is... I've actually managed to do that, a few times Mostly back before this superload etc. stuff was added into the engine, but still. From what I understand, that stuff actually makes stuff like changing single lines of code and whatnot easier than it used to be.

But nah, shieldpunching wouldn't really be the way to break the shield thing. Shield proccing would be -- stuff like arcane blade's procs and a great deal of extra accuracy from somewhere. Shields have the same accuracy bonus staves do, which more or less makes them staves with a much heavier physical component. Psi-wield an actual staff along with it, and...

Forget if you can flurry with dual-wielded shields, though. Probably.

[AlleeCat]

You can dual-wield shields? That's bad ass.

[Flare]

There's a class dedicated to that.

[Uristides]

Started playing this again after seeing this thread. I wanted to resume my(terrible) experiments with aura + shield triple mindstar mindslayer, but the new tier 4s for both branches look quite underwhelming. I think there was a generic that gave cooldown/damage bonuses to auras and shields that got removed too.
Think I'll just go back to Alchemist or Bulwark and have mad fun nuking everything in sight.

Edit: rolled an Anorithil just for giggles. Never thought I'd appreciate them much. Juggling the two resource bars and nuking everything at every range while having all those chants and hymns explode stuff is just awesome.

[Dr Feelgood]

Had a few cracks at Insanity, but I don't think it's for me. Silly things like drowning town mobs and such, or visiting Dreadfell at level 1 to set its level lower, they just don't sit well with me. And without things like that it doesn't seem to be very viable. Heck, my attempts at a Skeleton Rogue start never got out of Blighted Ruins (3).

Sounds like a painful combo for insane. The undead start is terrible even on nightmare and rogue is one of the weakest classes in the game.

Setting Dreadfell's level lower isn't necessary, but it might help. Levels don't matter much in tome, and you might lose an escort.

Drowning rare townsfolk is an easy and profitable exploit. On insane and higher, rares are literally everywhere and you can easily gain 7-8 levels without fighting anything. And there's an addon that let's you kill townsfolk quickly. An OP class can probably win without it, but there's no reason not to depopulate towns.

I prefer nightmare, since it's less unfair. I still like insane with its "5 rares around the corner" craziness.

[Frumple]

Eh, when you want that you just nab the "Everything is Unique" addon, ha. It has the added bonus of absolutely drowning you in loot, too.

[Frumple]

... difficulties above normal aren't balanced at all, last I checked. Unless DG has changed stances, T4 is balanced around normal and everything else isn't actually there to be seriously considered for balance changes. Bugfixing, yes, but insofar as balance is concerned nightmare and up aren't really there. At most, they ring bells for stuff that needs to be nerfed lest normal be too easily trivialized, ha.

That you can make it easier on yourself by running around and drowning the surplus of townsfolk is... fairly unlikely to be changed, because it's a problem that doesn't particularly exist in normal and thus isn't needed to be fixed.

Basically, while they're called difficulty settings, they're closer to extra modes or somethin', not genuine, balanced, difficulty settings. They're just there for fun, and because folks kept asking for them.

Anyone's welcome to make addons adjusting the higher difficulties, though, I do believe. Think there's actually been a couple...

---

... anyway, it mostly just irks me a bit to see people complain about the (almost entirely incidental) balance of nightmare+. Of course it's not balanced and wonky things happen in the game modes that have had basically no attempt to be balanced and are there as much to see what breaks as they are to play

[Frumple]

... y'know, I don't think I realized exactly what the implications of the Eternal Guard prodigy were. Until now, since I took it.

And, uh. Became functionally invincible. Eternal Guard + many-resistance shield (until you get the other shield prodigy, anyway) + auto-use block = nothing can kill you. Ever. My level 30th critter is shaving off roughly 230 points off of basically everything. It's... kinda' ridiculous. Cooldown pegged to duration and blocking everything that hits you, instead of just one round's worth. Faintly amazing. I hadn't realized it may be one of the best defensive (and, because you're countering pretty much everything always, offensive as well) prodigies in the game.

[RedWarrior0]

So I recently got this game and won for the first time.

Already got through the Room of Death and Atamathon, anything else I should do before I commit suicide fight Linaniil?

[Frumple]

Not that I can recall, unless you want to commit suicide by infinite dungeon instead of kaboom. If you've won, you can take your critter to the ruined dungeon and go down stairs.

Of course, unless it's been changed you can't continue to level like an actual ID character could, so you're absolutely going to die eventually, but that's more or less the base campaign's final destination.

[RedWarrior0]

Welp, I guess I have no choice now. Linaniil is dead. To the infinite dungeon it is!

[Dr Feelgood]

I recently got this from the merchant:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

voratun shield 'Polariakira' (12 def, 3 armour, 66.5 dam, 195 block)
   [Unique]
Type: armor / shield ; tier 5

When used to attack (with talents):
Base power: 66.5 - 79.8
Uses stat: 100% Str
Damage type: Physical
Mastery: Stoneshield
Accuracy bonus: +2.5% procs dam / acc
Physical crit. chance: +5.0%
Block value: +195
Damage (Melee): +17 acid / +20 temporal / +19 light
Burst (radius 2) on crit: +32 light / +40 darkness
When wielded/worn:
Armour: +3
Defense: +12
Ranged Defense: +12
Fatigue: +14%
Effects when hit in melee:
* 20% chance to corrode armor
* 27% chance to blind
Damage when hit (Melee): 20 temporal
Changes stats: +11 Con / +6 Mag
Changes resistances: +16% acid / +17% temporal / +35% light / +14% darkness / +3% physical
Grants telepathy: Dragon
Talent granted: +5 Block
Pinning immunity: +10%
Defense after a teleport: +5
Resist all after a teleport: +2%
New effects duration reduction after a teleport: +10%
Special effect on block: Unleash the fury of the cosmos, dealing light and darkness damage to your attackers
It can be used to activate talent Time Shield, placing all other charms into a 30 cooldown :
Effective talent level: 4.0
Power cost: 30 out of 30/30.
Range: 10
Travel Speed: instantaneous
Is: a spell
Description: This intricate spell instantly erects a time shield around the caster, preventing any incoming damage and sending it forward in time.
Once either the maximum damage (460) is absorbed, or the time runs out (9 turns), the stored damage will return as a temporal restoration field over time (5 turns).
Each turn the restoration field is active, you get healed for 10% of the absorbed damage (Aegis Shielding talent affects the percentage).
While under the effect of Time Shield, all newly applied magical, physical and mental effects will have their durations reduced by 48%.
The shield's max absorption will increase with your Spellpower.

Best shield ever?

[Frumple]

... it's alright. Block value's too low to qualify as best-shield-ever, though

Need at least two fiddy or so, preferably more. If you've got both block prodigies block value is basically all that actually matters on a shield, imo.

Actually, it's not all that sexy at all... time shield's good, but there's not that many resists (less of an issue if you've got the block-all prodigy, but eh), the damage isn't particularly notable (outside the on-hit stuff, which is pretty strong but...), and most of the other bonuses are just kinda' there. You can get way better shields, heh. Right rolls on a tier 5 random unique shield can get straight up bonkers.

Still pretty workable, though. Probably be pretty nice on a shield AB, methinks. They love that accuracy bonus and have aegis, sooo...

[Dr Feelgood]

I rarely use block. I mainly use shields for attacking. The closest I get to blocking is using shield slam.

Currently, my level 50 sun paladin deals 1400 bump damage, which is better than my old mindslayer. Flexible Combat is better than I expected.