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[krenshala]

Just because the game has been available for us to muck around in for a few years doesn't mean it is not an alpha version.  Also, as you quoted above, he did not say the game had  no flaws ... rather, he stated the complexity was not one of the flaws.  I'm not sure, but I believe your straw-man argument comment was, in fact, a straw-man itself ...

Like I said, alpha is an arbitrary label with little meaning beyond 'it is not entirely done yet'.  We could go through this entire forum and reply to all complaints and suggestions for improvements with 'its just in alpha', but that is not constructive nor relevant, just like how it's not constructive or relevant here, or as a counter-argument to bugs/niggles/flaws anywhere, at any time.

Actually, being an alpha has specific connotations, just as being a beta does.  Alpha implies at least one of the major portions of the game have not yet been implemented, or at the least completed.  Beta implies bug hunts and tweaks to improve gameplay, normally without actually adding new features.  Gamma indicates its done, other than (normally only) minor bug removal.

On Topic:  I use DT, but none of the others.  I have messed around with Stonesense, but not since 31.14 ...

[Aranna]

I think I used DFhack (or whatever one let you make magma) when I was too lazy to look for magma before DF2010. Dwarf Therapist did not seam very useful to me I find it easy to memorize the skills of the dwarfs (mainly due to the color coding in game; gray=stone related, etc). I only had problems when I manage to survive long enough to get up to 150-200 or more dwarfs, depending on my military might as they are very obvious ... though I don't really care too much about the skill level unless they are something like the engraver.

[j0nas]

Like I said, alpha is an arbitrary label with little meaning beyond 'it is not entirely done yet'.

Actually, being an alpha has specific connotations, just as being a beta does.  Alpha implies at least one of the major portions of the game have not yet been implemented, or at the least completed.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.  It means the game is not done yet.  I'm glad to have been set straight.

[malimbar04]

Like I said, alpha is an arbitrary label with little meaning beyond 'it is not entirely done yet'.

Actually, being an alpha has specific connotations, just as being a beta does.  Alpha implies at least one of the major portions of the game have not yet been implemented, or at the least completed.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.  It means the game is not done yet.  I'm glad to have been set straight.

haha

Anyways, most of the utilities are not linux friendly - so I don't really use any of them. I stick with vanilla dwarf fortress. Though really, how "vanilla" is any version of dwarf fortress? I'm still raising yaks and having chickens as pets while dieting almost entirely mysteriously brewable calorie-filled mushrooms - while waiting for the elvish caravan so I can slaughter the elves and take their wooden scepters for myself.

[blue emu]

I use Dwarf Therapist, and the visualizers Stonesense and Fortress Overseer. The latter two are not "officially" updated to v31.19, but all you need to do is replace the Memory.xml file with the current (v31.19) version, and they work fine.

Fortress Overseer:

[krenshala]

Anyways, most of the utilities are not linux friendly - so I don't really use any of them. I stick with vanilla dwarf fortress. Though really, how "vanilla" is any version of dwarf fortress? I'm still raising yaks and having chickens as pets while dieting almost entirely mysteriously brewable calorie-filled mushrooms - while waiting for the elvish caravan so I can slaughter the elves and take their wooden scepters for myself.

Mushrooms are meat!

Well, they are a source of protein, anyway.  Not sure if any can be brewed in real-life, however ...

[Carnes]

Dwarf Therapist!  What a difference it makes.  It's possible DF would have similar features if the game was moved into a real UI.  Leave the rendering basically the same and have the interface done as normal UI elements.  With ascii controls, there isn't much interface designing.  If the rendering is now done in another thread, it could be a possibility some day soon.  A multi-platform toolkit (like gtk+) would insure that the linux and mac people would get the same new features.

[Mickey Blue]

Utility wise I use Dwarf Therapist (makes the game playable*) and DFHack (but only the "get rid of FPS killing blood/fluids" part).

Mod wise I use Fortress Defense II (which, IMO, makes the game 100% more fun by virtue of making it 1000% more dangerous.  Having to potentially wait years just to see a serious siege (by which point you should be completely prepared to handle it) is far too easy for my taste.. My most recent (sadly dead..) fort has had 'vile forces of darkness' arrive at least five or six times (often at the same time, so double the size siege) and its like three years old.  I sometimes play around with Kobald Kamp too.. And mixing that with FDII.. Wow.. Epic..

-MB

*I'm sorry but I agree with the poster that commented that a flaw in DF is its lack of in-game UI to handle the complexity it offers.  Don't get me wrong I love the complexity of DF, and I also know its 'alpha' and that someday toady will work on the UI, but the fact taht the majority of fans feel its not only helpful, but necessary to have a third party program just to play the game to me is a big flaw outshined only by, perhaps, FPS issues (as "FPS death" should not really exist at the rate it does).

I get it, they are going to hopefully be fixed one day, but a flaw is a flaw, if it wasn't it wouldn't need fixing.

[SlimyMarmot]

As for most people, Therapist is almost a must for me and DFHack is a nice bonus, if for nothing else than taking care of FPS. I've lately been using a lot of Soundsense, which I love for keeping me up to date on fort happenings without having to constantly scan for announcements. The combat sounds are also great for those times when you don't want to read every log.

Ever since I started to do complex above-ground constructions/megaprojects, I've been using a lot of Overseer to help design them. Since you can only see one z-level and a glimpse of another (without utilies), I've found visualizers essential to get the scope of things right. Hell, most of the time I just use it to admire my latest aesthetically pleasing doomsday device, but I'm just a silly visual person like that.

[Urist McBusDriver]

Also - the utility that exports DF maps to Minecraft. I forget what it's called, and I'm not sure it's still up-to-date given how much Minecraft and DF have advanced since  I last used it. But it's great to wander round your forts in first-person!

Actually, it makes  me realise my fortress looks like Heathrow Terminal 3 because everything is only 1 z-level tall.

[PopeRichardCorey]

I do see your point about the flaws in the UI -- I just have to still say it's not really the game's fault. 

(And FPS death I think needs to be blamed more on the fact that we aren't playing this game on computers that would make the "black technology" computers that some conspiracy theorists think are out there look like a sleepy tortoise.)

[j0nas]

I just have to still say it's not really the game's fault.

Of course no actual arguments backing your statement are necessary.  You just have to say that, for no real reason with no support whatsoever.  Okay.

(And FPS death I think needs to be blamed more on the fact that we aren't playing this game on computers that would make the "black technology" computers that some conspiracy theorists think are out there look like a sleepy tortoise.)

Or it could be the fact that we aren't taking advantage of multithreading or the fact that Toady doesn't want to spend time addressing the root causes.  You know, so long as we're just pulling excuses from out of thin air.

[Mickey Blue]

I do see your point about the flaws in the UI -- I just have to still say it's not really the game's fault. 

If you are referring to the fact that the average human brain of all the details in the game in regards to what all your dwarves are assigned to do and what skill level they are at in all those skills (of which there are around 100 if you include military and social skills) then you are technically correct but ultimately your argument is pointless.  Beyond that changing your dwarves professions regularly when you have lots of dwarves is a huge hassle even if the average person could handle keeping all that organization in their heads.

I'm sorry, your argument (if I am understanding it right from your statements earlier) is simply absurd.

(And FPS death I think needs to be blamed more on the fact that we aren't playing this game on computers that would make the "black technology" computers that some conspiracy theorists think are out there look like a sleepy tortoise.)

Right.. But no.  There are documented reasons for the issues of FPS in DF, computers are perfectly capable of running a game with the same level of complexity without having to be impossibly high end.

Dwarf Fortress has flaws, FPS issues and UI are huge ones, arguably the largest.  There are entire entries in the wiki and countless threads on getting around FPS by disabling many aspects of the game (meaning to control FPS you have to decline to play parts of the game, how can this possibly not be interpreted as a flaw? And even making those sacrifices on excellent computers often just lets you 'get by').  As for the UI.. A mix between third party programs (such as Therapist) and simply plowing through it have gotten most of us through it.

I suspect both of these issues will be fixed (or at least moved forward) in time, but they are flaws, major ones, in a fantastic game.

-MB

[Krelos]

I use Therapist, though only started last week, and am grieved that I didn't start sooner.
I also use DFusion and DFhack, the former to increase my embark dwarves when I feel like it, and the latter to do various helpful and occasionally cheaty things.

In 40d I used to use Dwarf Companion and DFtweak to do a lot of heavy cheating. Part of me is glad they aren't supported anymore.. cheating a lot really lessens the FUN. Though, the ability to copy aquifer or river source tiles anywhere you wanted was very nice...

[Itnetlolor]

All I needed to manage a good fort was DwarfTherapist. I primarily used it for mass-assigning jobs on-the-fly.

I also use visualizers if I am intent on working on a megaproject (Bloodfist being my example). Japa's latest region visualizer makes finding a good site easier, just by looking at the geology of the location alone; although it's more an abstraction, and you'll have to embark at the site to be certain. One or two sites have been a bit deceptive, but the region visualizer was just showing what the embark screen would tell. Nonetheless, it doesn't mean I can't find an interesting site with it.

PerfectWorld is great for making custom worlds, either by generating something off a random generation, or a custom greyscale (Awesomeface world, for example; or Earth), it also helps for getting the nitty gritty details of a world perfect for an adventurer, or for embarking. DFHack I've primarily used DFReveal for breaching around aquifers, than through them, and then shutting off the reveal afterward once I hit deep enough stone and continue onward.