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[Nilik]

Am I only one that thinks it'd be pretty cool to have Public Opinion as a resource in an RTS?

Not quite what you're talking about, but C&C Generals Zero Hour had a "Public Opinion" score which you had to keep above a certain % in order to not automatically fail the mission. The premise was that Europe was getting overrun by the GLA (scary middle-eastern not-muslim-honest terrorist types), the U.S had been given a bloody nose and pulled back from the Middle East completely, and the Chinese army was the only one in a position to help out. You'd automatically lose points over time, and gain them for destroying specific GLA structures. I was kind of dissapointed that your own casualties vs enemy casualties and colateral damage didn't have any effect at all; it was more of a mission timer really.

[dogstile]

It was just a mission timer. Nothing else affected it. I think I won that mission by spamming fast movers and launching them past the GLA and destroying the statues. If anyone survived, they got to hold out in a building and play decoy while I destroyed the next one.

[MasterMorality]

"I want those awesome rooted monsters from Starcraft that wait until the enemy gets close and then launch tentacles up their asses. Just think of how demoralizing that would have to be.

But, I want to lose points off my Public Support Meter every time one of those monsters accidentally impales a schoolgirl in a horrific bloody mess that will shock all but the Japanese."

I almost spat coffee on my computer screen with that one!

[Strife26]

I always did enjoy that particular article of Wong's.

[olemars]

Daikatana sucked pretty hardcore...

A lot of the carnage on the Eastern Front wasn't so much due to the Soviets throwing people into the meatgrinder so much as the troops themselves just having colossal babushka-sized balls and refusing to back down.

I beg to differ.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Supreme General Headquarters of the Red Army commands:

1. Military councils of the fronts and first of all front commanders should:

a) Unconditionally eliminate retreat moods in the troops and with a firm hand bar propaganda that we can and should retreat further east, and that such retreat will cause no harm;

b) Unconditionally remove from their posts and send to the High Command for court martial those army commanders who have allowed unauthorized troop withdrawals from occupied positions, without the order of the Front command.

c) Form within each Front from one up to three (depending on the situation) penal battalions (800 persons) where commanders and high commanders and appropriate commissars of all service arms who have been guilty of a breach of discipline due to cowardice or bewilderment will be sent, and put them on more difficult sectors of the front to give them an opportunity to redeem by blood their crimes against the Motherland.

2. Military councils of armies and first of all army commanders should;

a) Unconditionally remove from their offices corps and army commanders and commissars who have accepted troop withdrawals from occupied positions without the order of the army command, and route them to the military councils of the fronts for court martial;

b) Form within the limits of each army 3 to 5 well-armed defensive squads (up to 200 persons in each), and put them directly behind unstable divisions and require them in case of panic and scattered withdrawals of elements of the divisions to shoot in place panic-mongers and cowards and thus help the honest soldiers of the division execute their duty to the Motherland;

c) Form within the limits of each army up to ten (depending on the situation) penal companies (from 150 to 200 persons in each) where ordinary soldiers and low ranking commanders who have been guilty of a breach of dicipline due to cowardice or bewilderment will be routed, and put them at difficult sectors of the army to give them an opportunity to redeem by blood their crimes against the Motherland.

3. Commanders and commissars of corps and divisions should;

a) Unconditionally remove from their posts commanders and commissars of regiments and battalions who have accepted unwarranted withdrawal of their troops without the order of the corps or division commander, take from them their orders and medals and route them to military councils of fronts for court martial;

b) Render all help and support to the defensive squads of the army in their business of strengthening order and discipline in the units.

This order is to be read in all companies, cavalry squadrons, batteries, squadrons, commands and headquarters.

The national commissar for defense: J. Stalin.

Men of War has a nice mission were you get to experience the thrill of being in one of those penal companies.

[Nikov]

Mineclearing? But comrade commissar, we have no mine detectors!

Mine detectors are for engineers! Penal battalions get shovels and heavy rocks! Now clear that minefield before dawn and for every mine that detonates when the regiment marches through, I shoot ten of you traitors!

[Erkki]

How does a Soviet Infantry Battalion proceed if it encounters a minefield?

As if it wasn't there.

-Josif Vissarionovits

[forsaken1111]

Somewhat (completely) off topic: I always enjoyed the description of the military tactics the Zuul use in the PC game Sword of the Stars. When the Zuul detect incoming enemy ships, they scramble their defense as usual and ready all weapons for combat.

They also shuffle all of their slaves, which have been stolen from your worlds, into space suits and strap them to the outside of the defense platforms, ships, and space stations.

If you shoot at zuul ships, you kill your own people.

[Nikov]

British recon unit did that with some German prisoners in Normandy.

[Nilik]

British recon unit did that with some German prisoners in Normandy.

Sauce Source?

[Zrk2]

I know the Total War series has been mentioned, which I think is a pretty shitty example of "realistic" warfare, since the AI is stone cold retarded.  Sure, the troops have a sense of self-preservation, but their pathfinding and appraisal of their own strength shoots them in the foot all the time.  Maybe Empire will be a little different - I hear it's basically a game of who can stand more troops in front of the cannons, which I suppose is a pretty accurate assessment of set-piece 16th century warfare.

I believe it was referenced as more realistic, not actually realistic. But still, every RTS ever has retarded soldiers. AoE3, I'm looking at you.

[forsaken1111]

I've spent 4 years in the military. Having retarded soldiers who do idiotic things IS REALISTIC.

[Nikov]

British recon unit did that with some German prisoners in Normandy.

Sauce Source?

Hubert Meyer, Chief of Staff of the 12th SS "Hitlerjungen", in his history of the division cites a "petition by lawyer Dr. jur. (LL D) A. Oehlert of 20.11.48 to the supreme military justice authorities."

Huge scandal surrounding the whole thing, and no, I'm not taking a 'position' about it. And yes, I know I read really strange stuff.

[Realmfighter]

Holy shit thats half way to the point of the thread.

I clicked the link before I realized it was a spambot.

[olemars]

Mineclearing? But comrade commissar, we have no mine detectors!

Mine detectors are for engineers! Penal battalions get shovels and heavy rocks! Now clear that minefield before dawn and for every mine that detonates when the regiment marches through, I shoot ten of you traitors!

Shovels and heavy rocks are heathen temptations.

During the Iran–Iraq War tens of thousands of young Basij [iranian militia] were killed on the battlefield. Believing that they were holy martyrs and chanting songs about the Battle of Karbala, in which the Imam Hussein died a heroic death, the basij cleared minefields as "human waves" so that more experienced soldiers could advance against the enemy.

[...]

The human wave tactic was implemented in the following way: The barely armed children and teenagers had to move continuously forward in perfectly straight rows. It did not matter whether they fell as canon fodder to enemy fire or detonated the mines with their bodies. The important thing was that the Basij continued to move forward over the torn and mutilated remains of their fallen comrades, going to their death in wave after wave. “They come toward our positions in huge hordes with their fists swinging,” an Iraqi officer complained in the summer of 1982. “You can shoot down the first wave and then the second. But at some point the corpses are piling up in front of you, and all you want to do is scream and throw away your weapon. Those are human beings, after all.”