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[Loud Whispers]

You're right that did sound crass.

[Angle]

No, I don't think so. It's not pleasant, but this is war. War is not remotely pleasant. It's better to have soldiers dying than civilians, and especially better than having children die.

[Loud Whispers]

No, I don't think so. It's not pleasant, but this is war. War is not remotely pleasant. It's better to have soldiers dying than civilians, and especially better than having children die.

So you don't think it's a sensitive issue to start talking about who you'd rather die? Because honestly I don't see why soldiers are any less human or why they deserve less to live.

[Angle]

No, of course I think it's a sensitive issue. I just don't think it's crass to talk about sensitive issues.

As for soldiers, they chose to be soldiers. They chose to put their lives on the line. Civilians did not.

[GlyphGryph]

No, I don't think so. It's not pleasant, but this is war. War is not remotely pleasant. It's better to have soldiers dying than civilians, and especially better than having children die.

So you don't think it's a sensitive issue to start talking about who you'd rather die? Because honestly I don't see why soldiers are any less human or why they deserve less to live.

Because they signed up for it. Because it's a risk they willingly took (unless conscripted, which changes the equation) and civilians have not. Because they are actively engaged in trying to inflict the status on others or directly supporting those who are attempting to do so. Because if it happens to enough of them the war will end.

There are a lot of good reasons why soldiers should die in war rather than civilians. I'm not saying they deserve to die, that's not a judgement I'd make. But it's not exactly a controversial thing to say that, in a war, civilians dying is worse than soldiers dying.

[Loud Whispers]

You're right, that makes enough sense.

[Baffler]

I think you're all forgetting just how much of Israel's army is made up of conscripts.

[smjjames]

I think you're all forgetting just how much of Israel's army is made up of conscripts.

Especially since they just did the draft, and burningpet is among the draftees.

[alway]

(unless conscripted, which changes the equation)

Not really. Even conscripts have guns. Meanwhile, all civilians can do is take the Amnesia: The Dark Descent route, and hope the armed horrorterrors don't find them as they hide in the closets. Except random bullets and random missiles will find you no matter where you hide.

[nenjin]

I think you're all forgetting just how much of Israel's army is made up of conscripts.

That's a fair point.

[XXSockXX]

On the topic of anti-Israel protests, there were protests in several German cities against the current offensive in Gaza, attended by thousands. They were organized by Palestinian organisations, far-left groups and members of the Left party, looks like they were mostly attended by Muslims though. Protests were mostly non-violent, but some people were shouting anti-semitic paroles like "Hamas, Hamas, Jews into the gas" (that rhymes in German). Nice. 
There were some more violent protests in France and Turkey too.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

far-left groups

Hamas, Hamas, Jews into the gas

And they call us, far-rights, neo-nazies....

[Leafsnail]

It is has been argued that during war, there is no such thing as a war crime. It doesn't hold in the international community, but the international community isn't there being shot at, watching friends and countrymen die and holding a gun and the power to do something with it.

I'm sure that some war criminals have argued that there is no such thing as a war crime, in the same way that some rapists have argued that there is no such thing as rape.  So what?

Do I think they should face sanctions? Sure. But then so should the US for the many killed in Pakistan by our drone strikes who were not terrorists or members of Al-Qaeda. We should face war crimes for the civilians killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Yes.

The point I'm trying to make is, you cannot look to the past. At some point someone just has to say "Enough" and mean it. And neither side will do that, because neither side believes the other will actually stop. No one is willing to halt their attacks and suffer the enemy's because they simply are no longer willing to commit to the cycle of violence. And....should they? I can't answer that. My people aren't dying. When they were America's wars, I wanted them to stop. And even that came with a price (see: ISIS and Iraq right now.) But as a stupid American with a government who will not sanction Israel, looking in from the outside, that's the only way it can stop. Is for either side to be tired of having blood on their hands, for whatever reason. I don't see Hamas ever doing that. And I don't see the current political leadership or security situation in Israel allowing for it.

The thing is we aren't "looking to the past".  This is happening now.  Another group of children were killed inside their own home by Israel today.

The only way this can stop is if Israel enters honest negotations and ceases the clear injustices it's inflicting upon people in Gaza and the West Bank.  The actions of Hamas don't really come into it.  If Hamas decided to renounce violence and surrender peacefully tomorrow that would do fuck-all in the long term, because there would still be a huge violent separatist feeling in Gaza that would just transfer itself to some other group (maybe Islamic Jihad, maybe IS, maybe some secular organization like the PLO.  It doesn't really matter).  Ultimately, if you give people the choice "starve to death slowly in your ghetto or go down fighting" some will choose the latter.

And they call us, far-rights, neo-nazies....

Reminder that a couple of days ago you were advocating the indiscriminate slaughter of civilians

[Ukrainian Ranger]

You mean not caring about meat-shields?

That is a way to save lives, if terrorist will know that taking hostages doesn't work they'll stop doing that. It is simple

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Yet "no negotiations with terrorists" mean exactly that kind of strategy of dealing with them

Terrorists must know that their act of terror will result in
a) Their death
b) Their demands ignored

If you want people to stop doing something, make it an unrewarding strategy.